Beware the ire of Gooners
Back in July I warned that if Arsenal didn’t buy a new keeper they seriously risked the ire of the fans. It wasn’t just that Almunia and the other keepers were unconvincing, they all have their moments of conviction, but more that… well, it was just that buying anyone would show that Arsenal understood the mood of the average fan.
So, I think the club have a really big problem that they need to deal with. More than just getting a keeper in who can win us a few games Arsenal need to get a keeper in who will show the players and fans that they are serious about winning. If they don’t and come matchday against Liverpool we see Fabianski lining up in the pink and black I suspect that there will be more than a few angry voices on this blog and all of the other 10,000 or so Arsenal blogs that are out there.
My advice to Arsenal is to buy a damn keeper and buy one now. Hell, buy two, just in case the other one breaks. You have the money, so think of it as an investment in supporter’s good will. Because if Arsenal don’t buy a keeper and start the season struggling with error prone players in defense, there will be a flood of negativity that even a Pollyanna like myself will be incapable of holding back.
Looking around the internet, the flood has begun. Gooners are pissed off that we didn’t buy anyone, with some thinking that Schwarzer was going to save us 9-12 points this season. I highly doubt that, as I said in that column above, Schwarzer isn’t that good. His value was more in the fact that he isn’t Fabianski.
There were a lot of people dreaming that we might get someone like Buffon or in my case, Shay Given. But it turns out that Arsene was just looking for an “anyone” and that anyone was Mark Schwarzer. I refuse to believe that Arsenal went after Schwarzer with a supposed £2m bid if Arsene Wenger, who looks at numbers and statistics all the time, thought that he would save Arsenal 9-12 points. We had the money and if there was a chance to pick up 12 points for an extra £2m then I’m sure Wenger, a trained economist, would have done the math and just paid the money.
I’ve often said that what complicates Arsenal signings is that Arsene looks for “Goldilocks” players: they have to be just right. I think Schwarzer was the “just right” keeper: he was older, on the end of his contract, an improvement (however slight) over Almunia and wanted to come to Arsenal. But at the same time he played for Fulham and from what I understand, Fulham wanted some outrageous fee for him. They probably felt like they had us over the barrel and could extract the most out of us for a 37 year old. I almost think that if we had offered £4m, Fulham would have asked for £8.
All of which is a moot point. Once Fulham realized that they couldn’t pay Given’s salary in a loan deal and that Man City wasn’t going to do a Bellamy and subsidize the loan the chances of Arsenal signing Schwarzer went to pretty much nil. And when Fulham’s backup keeper suffered an injury we probably would have had to pay outrageously outrageous fees to get Fulham’s only keeper. That and Mark Hughes is a known Arsene-hater.
So there you have it. The window is closed and Arsenal didn’t sign a goalkeeper. We don’t know all the details of what Arsenal were looking at buying apart from the ones who we actually did buy: Koscielny, Chamakh and a very scary looking Squillaci. All three of those players add a lot to the team in areas that we sorely needed last term. One could even argue that the increased aerial ability of the team with the addition of Vermaelen, Koscielny, Squillaci and Chamakh will help protect our keepers. We will have to see.
The one thing I’d like to address is that question I heard a lot of yesterday in the papers: does the fact that we haven’t signed a keeper mean that we’ve lost the title? That’s just plain stupid. We’re undefeated in the first three games and that includes a tricky away trip to Blackburn where Almunia nearly had a man of the match performance. We haven’t yet seen what Squillaci adds to the team, we haven’t seen a fully functional Cesc Fabregas, and Koscielny is adjusting to the league. There’s so much depth to this team that it’s preposterous to start writing them off in the third game of the season.
So, let’s not join in with the professional haterz and write the team off. After all, it’s only September.
I’m not saying that I don’t understand where the anger comes from. Read my article again, I fully understand why people are pissed. If anything, what I’m most worried about is that Almunia will get an injury and we will be stuck with Fabianski. But even that is speculation. Maybe that won’t come to pass. Maybe Wenger will instead play Sneezy if Almunia gets injured. For the time being, we have who we have and I can’t see any choice but to get behind them and hope that Almunia has the kind of break out season that he had two years ago.
After all, this is the same Arsene Wenger who stood by Alex Song, Eboue, and all the others who the fans thought were crap and watched as they grew into world class players. I have to admit that it would be almost a Christmas miracle if Fabianski turned into a world beater but hey, what else can I wish for?
I know, a time machine!
Comments
I think though, the (weak) attempt to sign Schwarzer, a mediocre goalkeeper, sends a bigger message, to not just Arsenal fans, but players and clubs around football – we are just not serious about challenging for the very top of football honors.
And that in turn sends a message to the Cesc Fabregases out there who think, yeah, Arsenal is a nice place to play, nice style of soccer, but we’ll never consistently contend at the club, or to the Barcelonas of the world, who think, Arsenal are all style, no substance, they’re essentially a footballer factory, we can shake their better players loose with a little bit of propaganda, subterfuge and then an insulting offer.
Arsene is his own worst enemy here.
Now, if (when) we go through another year without any serious contention, we will have to live through another summer of clubs coming for Cesc, RVP, Arshavin et al, another year of players from other clubs saying what’s the point of playing for Arsenal, they aren’t serious, another summer of hand wringing.
Had he bought a Marchetti, Akinfeev, Lloris we wouldn’t hear half as much noise next year about players leaving, because it would have signaled our serious intent to get over the hump. I’m convinced of that.
Ah well. We’ll be 3rd. At least we’ll finish ahead of ManUre and the Spurds.
@Brahmabull, What I have noticed recently is that Arsene isn’t chasing players, all of the players that we have brought in recently really want to be at Arsenal. While it might not look like winning intent to other clubs, they aren’t going to be able to turn our players heads with big money or anything else because the players want to be here. I
@Brahmabull, Marchetti had a nightmare World Cup and I’m completely unconvinced by Akinfeev and Lloris. I have not seen a single good game from either keeper and they would have come in and made as many if not more gaffes than our current crop (excepting Fabianski).
Your argument is that these are the best keepers in the world and that buying them would send a message. Sorry but I just don’t think that they are that good. United and Chelsea both need a replacement keeper for their aging squads and yet they haven’t purchased any of those guys. Why not? Are they waiting for their value to go up even further? I think that maybe, just maybe, they are overrated and well over valued.
As for sending a message, Wenger sent a message: he went out and bought 4 players who are great headers of the ball. In reality, that was a lot of our problem. Now, Almunia can stay on the line where he can use his superior reactions and let our defenders duel for the balls into the box.
I think we are going to have a great season. I think we’ll finish 1st or a close 2nd if we can keep our core players healthy.
@Tim, The new defenders who came in are replacements for outgoing players. We will have to wait and see whether the defense is improved over last year and whether the players, Squillaci and Koscielny, are better than Gallas and Campbell. I think both Gallas and Campbell were very good headers of the ball too. Who is the fourth player he bought? He also didn’t buy Chamakh but signed him on a free and he essentially replaces Eduardo in our striker corps or is a replacement for Adebayor who was never replaced. I think this is a good move and hope he will fit in with the way we play far better that Eduardo or Adebayor.
But I don’t think replacing outgoing players in this fashion has really sent much of a message. I don’t have a problem with the new guys. And it is far too easier to write off the season, because we still have a chance. Not a fantastic chance but a decent chance. We could have had a much better chance with a couple more quality signings. Our core players have had significant injuries every season, so without having a much deeper squad, hedging your prediction with that caveat makes it somewhat meaningless.
Your post, however, is unassailable and think you summed up the situation perfectly.
@Limestonegunner, “far too early to write of the season”, I meant.
@Tim,
United and Chelsea both need a replacement keeper for their aging squads and yet they haven’t purchased any of those guys. Why not? Are they waiting for their value to go up even further? I think that maybe, just maybe, they are overrated and well over valued.
the point that ur sorely sorely missing here is that CURRENTLY they do have top notch keepers at their club, who win them matches and points and eventually the title….
for a moment put aside searching for their replacements, currently they have great keepers and when the time comes im sure both clubs will go out and buy a more than capable replacement.
what i just dont get is, does wenger not believe that strengthening the keeper position will help us achieve our goals, hell hes agreed that the keeping slot could be better occupied. which brings me to wonder, is the epl title not worth the extra 10 odd million that signing a top notch keeper (or hell anyone better than the current fumbling duo) would have cost us!??!?!!
@arch, I know who has what personnel. The point you’re not getting is that there are only a very few of those keepers in the world and they are currently employed.
Prying a keeper like Lloris away from Lyon would cost a hell of a lot more than £10m and I’m saying that he wouldn’t really be all that better.
@Brahmabull, your argument is not credible if you really think Arsenal has not been in serious contention the past few years — why do you people always have to go overboard and wave your unreasonableness and lack of understanding so proudly? How was the Schweitzer move weak? You really, truly, do not know word one about what happened, but that doesn’t stop your pontifications, nor indeed stimulate any acknowledgement of the grey fog of uncertainty from which you extract your conclusions. Like many of the AKS crowd, you just want change for change’s sake, without any notion of why change would be better — ‘Arry would be a preferable manager for you — buy everyone in sight, bankrupt the club, move on.
Yeah, I resent your comments, because I’ve been on record on this site saying that I support Wenger unconditionally, and I supported sticking with the youth. I have absolutely no problem with his out-field signings this off season.
But it was dramatically clear to most Arsenal fans that when it came to goalkeeper, the pipeline was dry – the youth we have are either a) too inexperienced to step up (Sneezy, Mannone) or b) not up to the challenge (Fabianksi). And our starting keeper, Aluminia, is merely a servicable EPL keeper. No more, no less. Is that what we aspire to as a club? Having serviceable players at any position on the pitch?
I used those names as examples, not my choices necessarily.
Listen – why did Wenger go for Sorensen last January, and Schwarzer twice this past summer if he thought all was good with Alumunia and the young keepers? Because he doesn’t believe all is good. He recognized that there was a problem. But then he half-assed it.
I wouldn’t want any other manager for Arsenal, I love Wenger. But does that mean Arsene Wenger should be immune to critisicm? That’s bullshit. He fucked up this summer when it came to finding a worth goalkeeper of our team. End.
@Brahmabull, We did not lose the league cup or CL last season because of goalkeeping.
In April and May Arsenal are missing Cesc, Song, Vermaelen, RvP, Arshavin, Gallas, Bendtner – why are many Arsenal fans missing the plot and focused on making Almunia the scapegoat?
@Brahmabull, Let’s list the best keepers and their availability:
Buffon – Unavailable
Casillas – Unavailable
Júlio César – Unavailable
Petr Cech – Unavailable
José Manuel Reina – Liverpool turned down an enquiry.
Víctor Valdés – Unavailable
René Adler – Leverkusen are well managed and financially stable, near impossible to pry away.
Manuel Neuer – Schalke are the Citeh of Germany this year.
Igor Akinfeev – CSKA don’t need to sell, and he’s crap in the air.
Hugo Lloris – Lyon demand huge fees.
Sébastien Frey – Fiorentina would demand an excessive fee.
Marco Amelia – Genoa would demand a ridiculous fee.
Diego Benaglio – Wolfsburg don’t need to sell.
Guillermo Ochoa – Would Porto sell to us? What price would they demand?
Sergio Romero – Would kill off our young keepers.
Victor Leandro Bagy – Gremio would sell for the right price, but work permit would be near impossible,
Fernando Muslera – Lazio would perhaps sell for the right price, but is that price more than Wenger would pay?
@Joe, EXACTLY!
@Joe, There are some real holes in the analysis presented here, but it really is too tedious to go into every case you mention here. What is remarkable is the lengths people will go to avoid saying that at the very least the position could have been strengthened by replacing Fabianski with a number two who pushes Almunia. If we really couldn’t get one of these top keepers, and I don’t fully concede that point either as neither of us can really know what was attempted or what was possible, you can’t argue that we couldn’t find someone to compete with Almunia.
@Brahmabull, i completely agreee with Brahmabull… its about the intent. we shoulnt feel sad if world class players like our almost full team would wanna leave next year… i am sure we can still win the title this year… but the intent wont be there. it’s more like gamble for the next 4 months… i am sure thats the case.. wenger would be like fuck it… lets not sacrifice money in haste… [ there should be no haste... 3 fucking months! ] lets give almunia 4 more months….
wenger should have been looking for backup options apart from mark. cause almunia is tried and tested. and when u r in w 5 year no trophy period you could easily gamble with some money just for the intent of competition and fight for the only weak position in our team. you buy some a good keeper… and then if you get outclassed in a game its cool man…. nobody is going to blame anyone for that. we will just need to improve our performance. but last year almunia let in too many goals which could have been avoided. like the birbhimghim city game conceding a pointless goal in the 90th .. i mean fuck! i have never seen van der sar and cech do that… has anyone else seen that?
its not like almunia is new… he has been there done that. and fear is always he will drop points rather than get us points. the clubs above us… the 2 of them .. their keepers get them points. our keeper we are always worried of him dropping points.
we really should have had more intent. why would cecs, rvp and other strive to score goals and give their all when in the back almunia will fuck up..
saying all this we all are gonna support almunia .. the tough game will start in oct. 3rd with chelsea. that will tell the story. this month should be fine. and maybe this month will give him confidence when we face chelsea.
@munawwar, So you think Arsene doesn’t want to win the League?
Really?
@Tim, No. But, his idea on how to get there is different from mine or Munawwar’s.
I was never convinced by Schwarzer in the 1st place. I honestly think that Almunia is a tad better. We still have January to sign another keeper. I just wish that the new back 4 would gel immediately before January.
@Jet Pinoy Gooner, That might be part of Arsene’s thinking, too. Do you replace half the defence at the same time that you bring in a new keeper, or do you tinker with it one piece at a time so that the back line can learn to work together without also having to adjust to a new keeper as well?
@JV Mauer, You do when that defense has lost confidence in the keeper. And that is certainly the case with Fabianski and arguably the case based on last year. Plus, Wenger clearly thinks the position could be upgraded, which is why he has been looking for one since last January.
Not only does it send a message to our rivals that we are not serious about winning the title but also what mesage does it send to Cesc.Another window passes and we still havent signed the Quality players which Cesc needs around him for us to win a trophy.Its just pathetic.Top 4 maybe.Champions no way
@Howard,
Forget it, mate. Cesc had played with the Invincible team. How can Arsene convince him that Arsenal have a winning team unless Arsene does a ManCity? Cesc has never said that he wants to go because Arsenal are not winning trophies. I guess the fans want trophies and glory more than Cesc. After all he already has a World Cup medal.
Oh please can we move on. You guys have nothing to write about. If you are so clever why don’t you write to the Arsenal board and offer your services to replace AW. Nice job, good salary – just beware: any idiot with a keyboard and access to the internet thinks he knows better. Otherwise please just support the players we have. We are not Mancity nor do we want to be. Almunia needs a bit of confidence so get behind him and show shim we support him. He will be ok and soon szczesny will take over. No need to buy anyone.
Gary, put down your keyboard and step forward to accept your award for Optimist Of The Year! Gary, everyone. Congratulations. :p
God we football fans are the biggest babies
Truth be told, looking at the activity of the other top clubs (ManU, ManCity and Chelsea), I think we’ve got a pretty good shot at it, and I’m rather happy with the line-up we’ve got. Chelsea and ManCity are the main concern, but they’re both sides that are 1) getting older and 2) chop full of incredibly huge egos. Psychologically, I think our team is better positioned to go the distance. Physically (in terms of injures, etc.), I don’t think we’re any (or at least not much) worse off then they are (you can stop laughing now). The only reason we’re behind Chelsea at the moment is that they haven’t played anyone decent yet. As the season and the various competitions wear on, I think they may start to unravel. As far as Mooney goes, he knows he can be replaced in January, so hopefully he’s try to give AW a reason not to go looking. With the new financial rules coming on, look for January to be a particularly busy time (and even crazier than usual).
Then again, I feel confident every September.
@JV Mauer, I agree entirely and believe ManCity will take a while to come together as a team. The league is there for the taking. I don’t think any of that means we shouldn’t have been more active to strengthen the team and give us a better chance. But now, this is what we have and we have to hope and pray that we stay healthy, that some of the younger players improve, and that the new players adapt well to the PL.
Do you really think Eboue has grown into a world class player?
Come to think of it, would you really say Song is already in that category?
And who are ‘all the others’ that have become world class recently?
Fab we know about.
@Jekyll, Yes.
Eboue is a World Class player. If he was English, we’d never hear the end of stories about his “versatility” or his “pace” or “vision” or “dribbling” or his “character” for coming back from the ration of shit people gave him.
Song is one of the top defensive midfielders in the most difficult league in the world and he’s just 22 years old.
Theo Walcott is a World Class player who was stabbed in the back by spiteful cunts like John Terry and left out of the World Cup squad that took Joke Hole instead.
Diaby is world class and any team in the League would love to have him. Denilson is in the same boat and clubs could actually build around him as their engine.
Sagna didn’t get a call up for France until after he signed with Arsenal and played a full year of amazing football.
But maybe you’re right. Maybe it’s not that Arsenal have quality at every level on the pitch but rather that we’ve just been lucky to get into the Champions League for 13 straight years.
@ Tim, Clearly we have different ideas on what constitutes a world class player. I’d say we have a number of good players, world class to me constitutes that world elite of players. I’d say we have Fabregas in that category.
@Akish, I agree Eboue is a great back up to Sagna.
I thought others we going to do it but this really needs further comment. I’m sure you’d agree that Vieira, Pires, Henry were world class players. Are you seriously suggesting that the likes of Diaby and Denilson are on the same level?
Just the comments that any team would love to have Diaby or Denilson in their team are frankly laughable. Do you not see the lapses of concentration, the lack of tracking back, being overtaken by referees etc, etc, etc?? Were you not watching during the first half of Wenger’s reign 97-2004? Defensive organisation and attacking power play. There was the template that for some reason Wenger threw away. Where are your powers of comparison? I guess you’re not properly awake yet at 7am.
@Jekyll, So how many teams in the league have a backup RB with the ability of Eboue?
Would you rather have Lucas instead of Alex?
There are only 3 great goal keepers right now (Buffon, Cech and Casillas). THe rest of them are good but there’s no way to tell if they would be any better than who we have (even though we’d like to think otherwise). With the debt we have I think we can’t really afford buying a 20M+ keeper.
@Akash, You are forgetting Inter’s excellent goalkeeper and starter for Brazil Julio Cesar. There are a good number of goalkeepers who are better than Almunia and innumerable, even more importantly, who are better than Fabianski. The money argument is a red herring this summer season when we had so many players moving off our wage books and, as Wenger and the board both acknowledged, we had money to compete in the transfer market with other big clubs (not Man City but with our peers and competitors).
Unless I’m mistaken, Chelsea whom everyone is tipping to be league winners again, have 3 central defenders (Terry, Ivanovic and Alex). Ivanovic just picked up an injury that will keep him out for 6 weeks (apparently). Cech has been increasingly injury prone and his backup is Turnbull. No one thinks that is a huge risk. Yet we gunners sit here and cry about how Arsenal is not sending out a message as a serious title contender.
We are stuck (for good or bad) with the keepers we have have until Jan atleast. Unless crying about it is going to win us the league I think we should move on (and like Tim say’s maybe hope for a Christmas miracle) and look at how we can win with what we have.
@Akash, Don’t forget that Terry can now be exposed for pace and needs Cole for cover.
@Akash, Lol. Turnbull, now there’s a shit keeper. Always makes me laugh!
would that time machine be a hot tub time machine? I have been trying to get that working for a while but my time machine is broken. It keeps me stuck in the present
I absolutely hate comments that suggest Arsenal are “not serious about challenging for the very top of football honours”. What utter twaddle. The long term future of the club has been assured by building the new stadium and developing Highbury. The biggest fear that Arsene Wenger espoused prior to completeing the stadium was that it would reduce Arsenal to a mid-table team as happened to Ajax. This has not happened. It didn’t happen because we have a manager and a Board of Directors without equal in the game. Don’t agree? Then name the manager and the club that could have gotten us to where we are now. Under our own steam.
I have been an Arsenal supporter for over 40 years. My first game was back in the sixties watching Blackpool from the East Stand. A dour scoreless draw if memory serves. In goal was a man not so affectionately known as Fumbling Furnell. In front of him was one of the worst centre-halfs I have ever seen by the name of Ian Ure. I have seen the idiots at Highbury do their very best to undermine the confidence of players to the point that they fulfilled the prophecies of the most pessimistic fan. Nick Hornby’s Fever Pitch gave a glimpse of the negativity of some fans towards their own players. In the film it was Jon Sammels. A good player in what was at the time an improving team. The worst of it was, Hornby’s depiction was true. I used to watch and listen as Arsenal supporters did the opposition’s dirty work for them by slowly destroying one of their own players. It’s sort of the Arsenal way. Only now super-charged as only thed World Wide Web knows how.
Now, I’m not pretending that Almunia is a great goal keeper. He’s not. But he is a good goal keeper. He makes mistakes. But then, all goalkeepers make mistakes. I haven’t seen much of Cech this season, but he’s certainly not the keeper he once was after being kicked in the head. Reina’s own goal at Anfield. The 2 goals scored against Van de Sar at Fulham may well suggest a player that is past his best. Cudicini’s error against Wigan was pretty tragic. So far this season, Arsenal have conceded 2 goals. Neither of them Alminia’s fault.
I accept that last season wasn’t his best. But the season before he was being suggested as a potential England keeper.
However good Fabianski could have become, it’s probably too late. The damage has been done. Both by his own mistakes and the reaction from those that claim to support the club. I don’t know about Mannone but he did have some excellent games last season. He also made his share of mistakes. In my opinion, Arsene Wenger feels that the position long term belongs to our other Polish keeper, Wojciech Szczsny. A young player that may be able to rival the likes of Buffon and Cech at their best. But Wenger has stated that it is simply too soon to blood the young man at the level. At the back of Wenger’s mind must be the relentless criticism that awaits his first mistake. Also, the purchase of a world-class keeper in his prime (who, that is I don’t know) would effectively kill Szczsny’s career at Arsenal.
Schwarzer is no better than Almunia. But unlike Fabianski, his confidence has not been destroyed. He and Almunia would probably have done a decent job for Arsenal over the next couple of years. But Fulham simply didn’t want to sell him. And the suggestions that we were penny pinching over a million pounds are quite laughable. Also, looking at this from Fulham’s perspective suggests they are prepared to stop a player from moving to one of the top clubs in Europe over a comparatively small amount of money. Schwarzer will probably never get that chance again. Who in their right mind at Fulham would want him in their dressing room?
Every season, for as long as I’ve supported the team, I believe we can do well. With some of the very average teams we have had in the past, I accepted that winning the Championship was not always possible. But this squad is top quality, one of the best in Premier League. And it has every chance of winning big this year. Not 3rd, but 1st.
@Barry Webb, Nice perspective old wise one.
Three weeks. October 3rd vs. Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. We’ll see how competitive we’re going to be this season.
I am not a believer in trophies as the only mark of success. But what I am a believer in is going into your arch-rival’s house and battling them tooth and nail. We’ll see if we have that in us this year. We certainly didn’t show it against a 10-man Liverpool a couple of weeks ago.
Last year, only the game at ManUre did we show bottle away from home and were unlucky to lose that game.
Otherwise, we bent over and let Chelsea give it to us twice, and ManU crushed us at home. Both were embarrassing.
@Brahmabull
A few seasons back, Arsenal won the min-league of the top 4 clubs and came 4th I think. Man Utd came bottom of the min-league but won the Championship. Although I would love to see Arsenal stick it to Chelsea, Man Utd and the other pretenders to the crown, wi8nning the title has as to do with winning at the likes of Blackburn.
Now, on to the Chelsea game at the Bridge. I think we’ll get a draw at worse. With a little luck, we’ll win. But if we loose, our season isn’t over. That happens next May. And it’s only then that we find out who’s the best. I’m confident that it’s going to be Arsenal. You don’t think so. But I’d sooner be me and wrong rather than you and right.
I’m not sure how you can say “at worst” we get a draw at Chelsea? I guess I’m not singing Kumbaya and marvelling at the paisely colored sky, sorry if I’m living in reality. Chelsea have been ripping teams a new asshole the last couple weeks, in case you haven’t noticed.
In reality “at worst” we are going to get our asses handed to us with a Drogba and Anelka destroying a young, undersized pair of central defenders that they have 20lbs of muscle over each one of them.
I hope I’m wrong, but with RVP potentially out, Bendtner likely out, Essien healthy and coming back into form… yikes. I would take a draw, gladly, and count myself lucky if I were Arsenal.
@Brahmabull, The score-lines flatter Chelsea. If the Brum had put up a proper wall and had a keeper who doesn’t flap like a Flappyhandski they’d have lost by 3 not 6.
That aside I’d take a hard-fought draw at the Bridge. The sort that gives you confidence, and tells the players that they can compete. The season won’t be won or lost this early. We have to avoid dropping the silly away points at Sunderland, Stoke, Wigan, etc.
@Brahmabull
“I would take a draw, gladly, and count myself lucky *** if I were Arsenal ***”
That’s the difference. I am Arsenal. Through and through.
What you are I have no idea. But I have a feeling that you would have been one of those supporters helping Jon Sammels out of the club all those years ago.
@Barry Webb, I enjoyed your reflections Barry and thoughts on that great Arsenal novel, but I think it is quite bad form and uncalled for to make personal attacks about someone’s status or qualifications to support Arsenal. That is a distasteful feature of many other Arsenal blogs and this one happily is a distinguished exception to that. Here, Arsenal supporters discuss their views and engage one another’s arguments as much as possible. That’s what makes this such a great place to talk football and support Arsenal–disagreements are about our ideas not about who people are or are not.
But, hey, it’s a free country and open comment section. But I wonder how your last comment really advances the discussion here, unlike your earlier ones which I read with great interest.
@Barry Webb, Cheers for the perspective. The way I always think of it is: At least we ain’t on the terraces watching Grimsby lose 4 – 0 to Huddersfield in the pissing rain!
Ah, Grimsby, now there’s a town.
In yesterday’s blog I posted my ‘clever’ take on Almunia at 09:38.
Today this blog* plagarizes my comment and I will be calling my lawyers Dewey, Cheatum and Howe, PC.
*http://arsenal.theoffside.com/team-news/squad-deadline-day-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-almunia.html?
@ctpa, http://arsenal.theoffside.com/team-news/squad-deadline-day-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-almunia.html?
I wrote that blog for today. Could you clarify what you mean when you accuse me of plagarism?
I just looked up your comment from yesterday. If you were joking just now, sorry. I just saw plagarism and thought “Oh no! Someone thinks I stole their work!”
@Sairax, I guess that means great minds think alike.
I digress but if Hleb hated London wonder what he’s going to think of Birmingham?!?
@Akash, Industrial bucolic town.
@Akash, http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6352872,00.html
I guess when you are warming the bench, Spanish and German cows and grass just can’t beat the metropolis that is Birmingham.
I tend to agree with those who suggeat that Schwarzer is only marginally better than Almunia as a basic goalkeeper.However where he would have been a great signing is because he would have brought what all top keepers need and that is prescence.He would have been a big commanding old lump{a bit like Lehman}wheras flapper Almunia is like a rabbit caught in the headlights.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1307837/Heavyweight-Sol-Campbell-enjoys-run-Newcastle-reserves-mini-derby.html
Honeymoon is long gone.
@ctpa, Yeah, If he had stayed on I think he wouldn’t have been much helpful to us, atleast at the start of the season. He’s going to take atleast a month to get back into shape. And then maybe a month to get into full fitness.
Not a very smart move on Sol’d part to binge. His comeback is going to be that much tougher.
@ctpa, He’s a massive bloke!
@ctpa
He’s big Boned like Eric Cartman
http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/839698-arsenals-mark-schwarzer-transfer-bid-scuppered-by-fulham-failures?
We tried, we failed but not by our own design. We move on. If Almunia continues to have that ‘look’ he had in his eyes against Blackburn for the rest of the season then I think he’ll be fine for us.
@ctpa, This may work out for us. He’ll have to prove he’s worth the spot in the team by January. The fans really, really need to back him and give him the confidence he needs.
After spending much of my day yesterday wallowing in misery, I finally came to terms with the fact that we have Mooney as our GK till at least January so for fuck’s sake let’s get behind him. I actually didn’t think we were going to sign Schwarzer. I thought that like most great Arsene signings we were going to end up signing a GK that most of us has never heard of. Still, I would have liked to see a new GK come in so that we wouldn’t need to keep Fabianski on the bench. As a fan it’s a bit disheartening but if you consider that we beefed up in defense, then there is some encouragement in that. One thing I didn’t realize was that the addition of Chamakh is not only an improvement in attack but also an improvement in defense. The sight of him curling his long arms around big Samba was a sight for sore eyes. Can you imagine anyone else in our team doing that? There is a lesson to be learnt from it. If you have your striker putting in a good defensive shift, then there is no excuse for the midfielders not to – and if you have your midfielders doing their defensive duties properly then the game becomes a lot easier for the defense and in turn, the GK. The signs have been good so far this season, but I will hold my judgment till we play a proper title challenger because in my eyes those will be the games where we prove our mettle.
So to sum up, disappointed that we didn’t get a keeper but still hopeful that we can win something this year.
@nycgunner, As I noted above, I don’t think we can really say we beefed up in defense by simply replacing our outgoing CB’s, but I like this point about the added defensive dimension Chamakh brings to team defense. All around I am really enthusiastic about Chamakh and think he could be a really valuable player for us. He is all heart and courage, a real fighter, which we have needed.
@Limestonegunner, Look at the guys who left – Gallas (good but disruptive), Sol (too old), Silvestre (utter shite). Unless Schillaci proves to be useless, I would definitely say we have upgraded.
@nycgunner, We’ve replaced two experienced players who did well last year with two new players we hope will play well with Vermaelen and for us this year. Squillaci is the more proven quantity. It is Kosc that is the question about whether he is an upgrade yet. He has very little experience at the highest level, one year in a league below the best four in Europe, and is slight in his physique. However, he shows great potential, has speed, is a fighter and is tough–Cole almost broke his leg and he was back the side. Wonderful! we needed that and perhaps there will be more harmony with Gallas gone. But there is also a leadership gap, something we have suffered from. It is so early in the season that to have the opinion that we have strengthened even though we have fewer available CB’s is an opinion not grounded in real evidence. We have changed our CB’s. It is a hope that the defense has thereby been improved, and one that I share.
@Limestonegunner, I can understand you are skeptical about our defenders but if pre season and the last three games are anything to go by, I would say the signs are encouraging. Perhaps it’s a bit premature on my part to say that we have upgraded but IMHO losing Silvestre and Sol, experienced as they were, was no big loss. If we had someone like Martin Keown and we replaced him with Kos, yes I would definitely agree with you – but it’s fucking Silvestre and Sol. So loss of experience? Sure. But loss of quality? I don’t think so. Of the players that have come in, Schillaci is battle tested. Kos was not. There wont be many teams as physical at Blackburn at Ewood Park, and given Kos’s performance there, I would say he has done quite well (apart from the slight gaffe that led to the goal, but he was not the only one to blame). So while I can certainly understand your skepticism, the optimist in me believes that the defense has been upgraded.
@nycgunner, I am not being terribly skeptical. I am just saying that we hope they are better but you can’t conclude this is an upgrade until these two new CB’s perform and we compare our defense. I believe these are two good signings and would be delighted if they fulfill our hopes. But Kosc is not a known quantity and Squillaci is unknown to the PL and his teammates. I am encouraged, I just think it doesn’t make sense to assert things like that at this stage. It is like people saying that with Almunia we have no chance to win the league.
@Limestonegunner, Kos is a real defender. In the Italian style. Watch the B’burn game again. His anticipation, positioning and heading is flawless. He even picks out a pass with a defensive header, rather than heading clear in a panic. His one mistake was on the physical side of the game, and that’ll come as he adapts.
@Joe, He is looking good. Let’s hope he can keep it up. Young players without a lot of experience have more ups and downs and he is adapting to a very tough new league. Hopefully he’ll get stronger as he gets older.
Since we are not Man City, we just can’t go buy a bunch of players and then when we find players better than those initial players, just keep the old ones on the shelf, like Given and Bellamy, sit them, and pay them outrageous wages. While we are a big club, we still have to strike a balance between developing youth and giving them a realistic road to coming into the first team, and making opportunistic buys in the transfer market.
When you look at the GK situation, it seems to me that Arsene was interested in changing out Almunia, while at the same time, leaving the #1 spot open for Mannone or Chesney in the very near future. He sees those 2 everyday. If he thinks that one of them is or will be as good or better than Ikinfeev or Lloris, then I trust his judgment. Why spend 10-15MM pounds on a player if you think you’ll have the equivalent player ready to go in a year. Yeah, it’s not instant gratification for the irate supporter, but it makes too much financial sense in an uncertain economic world and when it might be great to have as much in the bank for a rainy day.
Maybe we could’ve bought Ozil for 15MM this offseason, but I say Wilshere’s exactly that player. Maybe a few years ago we could’ve bought Yaya Toure for 20MM, but we’ve got Song developing into the player we need at that role on the pitch. My point is just because some of our players aren’t purchased for 15MM pounds doesn’t mean there’s a lack of ambition for the club. Last year, even with the big problems with GK and defense, we were still in contention until quite late in the season. Three seasons ago, we were 8 pts top the table early in the second half of the season before not getting the breaks you need.
Would I like to see Arsene buy a few additional players, or make a bigger transfer splash on occasion? Sure. But that doesn’t mean I fault him for a lack of ambition.
@ArseChicago, You are back to the argument you made yesterday. Where are all these rainy days coming? There are financial fair play rules coming in that will possibly even up the field (there are big loopholes but generally football will be moving onto more stable, sustainable financial footing), our debt is rapidly disappearing, and our matchday revenues are fantastic at the new stadium. There could be more done to enhance our commercial, merchandising revenues (and our sponsorship deals are way undermarket but we are in long term contracts with Emirates). The best way to enhance those commercial revenues is to make more enthusiastic fans around the world. Occasionally that means making a splashy signing that helps your team and excites the fan base, that means winning a major title… Refusing to do this often enough and Arsenal’s worldwide image and base of support weakens and we suffer the opportunity cost of losing young new fans who are attracted at 7-14 years old by exciting winners with star players they idolize.
From the perspective of fiscal prudence you are adopting, Arsenal’s strategy is becoming penny-wise and pound-foolish. I am not talking about buying players we don’t need at present, but in your examples, you also have to account for the costs to develop Song (and pay him very well for two or three seasons–and Arsenal pays its young players much more than they would get at a lot of other clubs–) while he plays in your first team but doesn’t make a contribution commensurate to what you are paying or what the team needs during those years, because you don’t want to “kill” him, which leads to Arsenal not achieving that season or the next. Then when he is in his mid-late twenties he thinks his 6 years at Arsenal have been wonderful for his development as a player with all the first team opportunities he had early on, but now he would actually like to be payed more as an established player than Arsenal’s wage structure allows (since we don’t pay top players very often at the highest level they can get if they are that good at other teams like RM, Barcelona, Bayern, Chelsea, ManCity, ManU) and/or he would actually like to win championships now.
Yes every successful team over a longer period needs to combine youth development with experienced quality. The balance is, I think, a bit out of kilter right now at Arsenal. After several years of sacrifice to build the stadium while remarkably maintaining our CL level of achievement, we have the resources to compete in the market and take the steps necessary to enhance our chances this year by improving our experience and quality in a few places. At the same time we might be making fans really enthusiastic and motivated too. That was the reason for moving to the Emirates.
Thanks to excellent and prudent management Arsenal is in an excellent, excellent, financial position. There is no rainy day other than the gloom of our underachievement right now. A club like Arsenal, if it has ambitions to be the best in Europe, and we should be in that argument, can and needs to behave differently and with greater ambition. Or have we become so used to pinching our pennies, while we needed to, that we can’t see the opportunities before us? The league is there for the taking and we may yet take it. Would it have been a crime to pay a bit more to increase that chance and bring some joy to the best fans in football?
@Limestonegunner, To be clear, I meant refusing to play in the transfer market often enough not refusing to win, since that isn’t in our hands. But refusing to go the extra financial lengths required sometimes to give yourself a better chance and seize an opportunity is in more in our hands.
@Limestonegunner, There are no guarantee that the extra financial output would have made the difference. Chelsea have been trying and not succeeding to win the CL for six years, and like us the “pawpers” have only been in the CL final once. They also had the what many considered to be the best manager in the world, and never won it. The transfer market is not always the answer. Luck and more luck, ask Manu U fans , because they had luck in abundance when they won the treble.
@LONDON CALLING, There are never any guarantees in sport. Teams with ambition and resources however do everything possible to increase their chances when there is a good opportunity and they haven’t won in a long time. Please don’t caricature my argument or exaggerate.
Superbly put, gets to the heart of it. We overpay them as youngsters and sacrifice actual seasons to develop them, then the best ones move on because we don’t pay the top wages or win things (as Fab wants to do). The mediocre ones cannot be sold as no one else will pay them those wages (Almunia, Denilson). The fundamental flaw at the heart of the post-2004 Wenger way.
I never really understood the term “get behind him”. A host of commentators are telling all Arsenal fans to get behind Mooney. How do we do that. Should we stop expressing our views on blogs that Almunia is an excellent shot stopper but is totally wrong for the type of football we play? Or should we praise him for standing rooted to his line so all the pressure is put on our undersized defense? Or just maybe we should praise him for punting the ball aimlessly down field to the opposition so we have to fight to regain possession?
I have never, ever in my entire life booed any player from a sporting team which I supported, and will never do so. So, does it make me a bad fan because I can’t praise him, even though he deserves no praise?
Mooney is a weak link because he puts too much pressure on our defense and gives away possession way too much. That is a statistical fact. Its not so much the mistakes he makes, but what he doesn’t do. Swartzer or someone of that ilk may be be that much of an upgrade in terms of shot stopping skills, if any, but they would certainly help other facets of our game.
I am of a slightly different opinion to Tim, because I would not be asking my defense to make up for the GK’s weaknesses. Instead, I would be asking the GK to complement and enhance my defense. Almunia has lost the confidence of the team and it will be hard to regain that confidence.
It is what it is, and I’ll support AFC to the bitter end, but am somewhat perturbed that we are going into battle with a weakness in our flanks which could have been addressed in a reasonable time and with reasonable financial prudence.
And, regardless of what anyone wants to say, I am an Arsenal FAN.
@Caribkid69, For me, getting behind a player means not to go express disdain or frustration every time a player misplaces a pass, gives the ball away or makes a mistake. Take last year’s Eduardo for example. He was in terrible form in every sense of the word, but the fans still sung his name and “got behind him” during games. At the end of the day, he wasn’t able to regain his old form but you know at the fans did the right thing.
@nycgunner, at least the fans did the right thing
@Tim,
BTW, Peter Cech is only 28 years old, which is very young for a GK.
On another issue, ArseChicago, I don’t know who is responsible for what we discussing as a “lack of ambition”. Certainly the board shoulders a great deal of responsibility and so does Gazidis. Wenger wants to win as we know but sometimes it seems as if it is very important to him to prove that he can do it a certain way. I happen to support the overall approach and am proud that we are a different kind of club in many ways, but the best approach has to be combined with the flexibility needed to adjust and learn and make the most of opportunities that come because the differences that determine outcomes are so small. Sometimes there is a rigidity and ideological character to his position that I think risks hurting the club. He’s the best manager for our team, I believe that, but he isn’t perfect and neither is the board or Gazidis. While I appreciate the amazing achievement of staying in the CL while financing the stadium during the credit crisis and real estate bubble bursting, I think it is a bit callow and out of touch to ask us to celebrate finishing fourth as if it were equivalent to the glory of a trophy.
@Limestonegunner, We aren’t the Sp#ds after all!
@Joe, lol! Exactly. DVD for defeating Young Boys! Booed off the pitch for losing to Wigan at home; numpties!
@Limestonegunner
As you quite rightly say, it’s a free country. Which country you are referring to is unstated but I think I understand what you are trying to say.
I dispute that I have made any personal attacks. I stand by my statements that the negative comments regarding some players, the team or club are often countre-productive. And, having re-read the various posts from Brahmabull, some of which I have quoted from below, I believe my responses have been civil and accurate (as I see them of course).
These are a selection of Brahmabull comments:
“I think though, the (weak) attempt to sign Schwarzer, a mediocre goalkeeper, sends a bigger message, to not just Arsenal fans, but players and clubs around football – we are just not serious about challenging for the very top of football honors.”
“..Arsenal are all style, no substance, they’re essentially a footballer factory, we can shake their better players loose with a little bit of propaganda, subterfuge and then an insulting offer”
“Now, if (when) we go through another year without any serious contention…”
“Ah well. We’ll be 3rd. At least we’ll finish ahead of ManUre and the Spurds”
“Three weeks. October 3rd vs. Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. We’ll see how competitive we’re going to be this season”
“We certainly didn’t show it against a 10-man Liverpool a couple of weeks ago”
“I’m not sure how you can say “at worst” we get a draw at Chelsea? I guess I’m not singing Kumbaya and marvelling at the paisely colored sky, sorry if I’m living in reality”
“I would take a draw, gladly, and count myself lucky if I were Arsenal”
As you should be able to infer, our friend Brahmabull has little positive to say about the team 3 games into a new season. Accepting that Brahmabull may be one of the nicest people in the world, I stand by my comment that he is in good company with many other Arsenal supporters over the years that seem to gain some obtuse pleasure from consistently putting the team down.
Finally, if you feel my comments were a little unfair, I suggest you never go to a game. What you hear there will surely put my comments into perspective.
I really don’t give a shit what you THINK is my attitude toward my team, Arsenal, because you obviously know shit about me, and are basing your opinions off of one set of postings, today. Good for you, such powers of perception and mind-reading ability I’m sure have made you a successful billionaire philanthropist by now.
I notice you didn’t cut and paste my line saying that I loved Wenger and wouldn’t want any other manager for Arsenal. Or that I had no problems with any of his out-field signings this year. I think he’s done exceptionally well given money spent vs. quality brought in.
But, so be it. I invest my time every week watching (and cheering) for the Arsenal, I have a right to be disappointed in the lack of a world-class goalkeeper. And I have the right to make an assessment, MY OWN OPINION, and say that no, this current roster is not good enough yet to overcome Chelsea and Man City. Sorry, I wasn’t aware that being a Nirvana pie-in-the-sky optimist was a requirement to cheer for Arsenal. I guess that makes you a better supporter than I. Good for you.
@Brahmabull, Lol my friend
@Barry Webb, I think the idea of this blog/forum is to encourage dialogue (bith for and against) not argument and definitely not finger pointing. Some Gunners see the glass half full while others half empty. Neither is going to change the way they see things. Finger pointing/name calling achieves nothing. Can we stop making personal attacks?!?
@Akash, My sentiments exactly. Lots of Love (lol) Enough said.
@Barry Webb, there you go again Mr. Webb. Why not engage the argument rather than shut it down by dismissing someone’s status as an Arsenal supporter and attacking the person. Just refute the points, if you can. What exactly am I going to hear at a game? At the last one I went to I didn’t notice anyone attacking one another for not being the right kind of Arsenal supporter. What I did notice was a very quiet stadium without a whole lot of chanting and singing, and that saddens me as much as when people boo a player. But to be honest I don’t think there is that much of that. Tottenham lost to Wigan over the weekend after qualifying for the group stages of the CL for the first time and were loudly booed at White Hart Lane. I think Arsenal supporters are great. I might disagree with some of their views and ideas but I am not about to tell them they aren’t proper supporters because of it. That’s all I am saying.
@Limestonegunner, Away games are where it is at. Travelling Gooners get my respect.
Here’s a sample lineup which I hope to be both fairly consistent and successful this year.
Almunia
Sagna Koz Vermaelen Clichy
Diaby/Wilshire Song
Walcott Fabregas Arshavin
RvP
So I ask, what do folks wish to do with this starting 11?
GK – Yes, no one wants Mooney, but we have what we believe/hope to be one of the brightest prospects, Szszesny, waiting in the wings.
Back 4 – Of these 4, folks want to burn Clichy an effigy mostly, but we’ve got an incredible prospect in Gibbs that we can insert and not lose a beat, perhaps even improve.
Song and Wilshire/Diaby – Maybe bolster Song’s partner here somewhat? At some point in the near future, we won’t be able to keep Wilshire off the pitch.
Other midfield – It’s pretty strong right now, yes? Considering we have Rosicky, with an injured Nasri, who was looking in terrific form, and Ramsey hopefully next season.
Central striker – RvP, Chamakh, Bendtner, Vela. Who gets displaced here?
My point is if Arsene is to splash 20MM on a player, where does he go on the pitch? And if we have guys like Gibbs or Wilshere or Szszesny, why spend 15-20MM on players that these guys either already are or will be very soon? Now, maybe RvP has to get written off after this year as our #1 striker and we go and buy a fancy new striker. Or maybe one of our CBs don’t work out and we have go to spend up on a flashy CB prospect. Maybe Diaby/Wilshere don’t work out partnering with Song and we go big there next season. All are distinct possibilities. But right now at this moment, this is a top 10 club in the world and one with a legitimate chance to win the Premiership.
Seriously…
Arsenal have only one player who could start for Chelsea tomorrow – Cesc Fabregas. He is also the only player that could start on Inter Milan.
So, seeing as how Chelsea are the reigning EPL champs, and Inter the European champs, there’s Arsenal’s measuring sticks. When you can name 4 or 5 players on our team that could walk onto Chelsea or Inter then I’ll say we’ve got a winning core. Until then, Arsenal do not measure up and will always be hoping for luck and an exceptional run of form to carry them to any success.
@BlackArse, Lol. And the reverse could be said of Inter. Only Snjieder and Julio Cesar would walk into our team. Maybe Samuel too. The rest? No too old and slow for the EPL.
Huh?
Maicon is the best right back in THE WORLD.
Zanetti, Cambiasso, Milito… old and slow, sure, but winners, not?
Seriously. They dismantled Barcelona in Milan, and then finished the job. They beat Bayern with relative ease in the final.
Wow, people get carried away here. Get a grip. You can cheer for your club without drinking the Kool-Aid. We have talented players. At their current rate of development, and if we can keep them together, we’ll have a super-team in 3 or 4 years. But not right now.
@Arsechicago,
Very few fans have asked for us to splash 20m on a player and in fact most fans are happy with the team except for GK and maybe some backup for Song. Do most fans feel we can compete effectively for the number 1 spot with Almunia and Flappianski? No. Do most professional commentators think so? No.
From a poll taken on one of the blogs with over 2000 voters, only 10% were happy with our GK situation.
As far as I am concerned I think we would have a better chance with CZ between the sticks because he has attributes which complement our defensive organization. If we don’t want to stifle the youngsters then give them a chance to show their worth.
@ArseChicago, You could add a real quality player to compete with/cover for Song. The best teams have two good players in every position and I don’t think we have another player who does what he does. We play in four competitions and have excessive injuries, so we could really use that sort of depth at every position. As it is we do have quality up and down the first eleven and even some in our second eleven.
So, I think we play much better with Song protecting the back four. You already mentioned goalkeeper and you mentioned striker as RvP’s injury record warrants. So, there are at least three positions that could be strengthened.
Because I am such a reasonable and moderate supporter, I would be quite happy with just one of those, GK. I’m pretty happy as it is, but I just don’t understand why so many immediately want to retreat to an unreal position of avoiding criticism of our manager.
It is a lot like your very vehement attacks on anyone who suggested, or even raised a question about the subject, that they would be happier if Wenger wasn’t commentating at the World Cup but rather putting all effort during that month working on our transfers. Anyone who did so must just be an Arsene Wenger hater!!? I love Arsene Wenger, admire him, am proud of him, think he is the smartest manager. I watch his press conferences on Arsenal TV and am always impressed with his insight, self-possession in the face of idiotic and hostile questions, dignity, and charm. My two and a half year son has learned to recognize his image and sing the classic “We love you Arsene Wenger” of the Arsenal Away Boyz! At the Emirates cup he wanted to see Wenger more than Nasri, his favorite player.
Why do I have to say this just to make a point about what he could do better for Arsenal? What’s wrong with acknowledging that the minimum for a club of our status, stature and ambition is to secure a half-decent backup to a #1 GK that has lost the full confidence of the manager? It bothers me that we have so many supporters, in the name of optimism and being proper supporters, don’t have higher aspirations and expectations for this club.
if its as easy as buying players u think are world class why did Citeh fail to get into the champions league. they have all the sort of players you doomsayers wish for. Playing football is more than the price tag. Anelka, Henry, Pires, Viera, Fabregas,Lauren, Overmars,Toure, Campbell, Walcott,Edu, Silvinho,Arshavin, Van Persie, Petit, Gallas, Song, Rosicky, Hleb etal were all brought in by Wenger. Who are these doomsayers to doucbt his judgement. Get a life. The team will be strong this year. Who said Chelsea, Liverpool and Man U wnat to lose to us at there own homeground. Losing away to a top team does not make arsenal a bad team does it?
ARSENAL 25 Registered with the Premier League for 2010-11 season.
Manuel Almunia, Andrey Arshavin, Nicklas Bendtner, Marouane Chamakh, Gael Clichy, Denilson, Neves Pereka, Abou Diaby, Johan Djourou, Emmanuel Eboue, Lukasz Fabianski, Cesc Fabregas, Laurent Koscielny, Vito Mannone, Samir Nasri, Tomas Rosicky, Bacary Sagna, Alex Song, Robin van Persie, Thomas Vermaelen, Sebastien Squillaci.
I thought we bought a new player, until I considered who the hell was Neves Pereka. I know now. Phew
some of the people posting here have their heads up their arses farther than Wenger.
Only Cech, Buffon and Casillas are good keepers? Akash, you’re an idiot if you have never heard of Neueur or Handanovic. Or Adler and Lloris even. Julio Cesar has won 6 trophies in 2 years. Valdez has won even more. Stop watching replays and spouting off bullshit based on 10 second clips.
Someone said Diaby is world class? And so is Denilson? You need to put down that crack pipe, mate. And calm down. I doubt even Diaby and Denilson themselves would say they’re world class. Deckchair Denilson is one of the worst DM’s I’ve ever seen and the less said about Headless Chicken Diaby the better it is. He earns 60k/week because he’s French. Nuff said.
Song is a decent DM. That’s about it. Him being the best out of the rest does not automatically make him world class. His positioning is poor and he has the pace of a lumbering oil tanker. I think even Cygan was quicker. He’s adequate at his job. De Rossi, Cambiasso, Yaya Toure, Essien, Mascherano…these are genuine world class DM’s.
Eboue sucks as an RB hence why an ordinary player like Sagna can keep him out. He’s no winger and though he does have a few tricks up his sleeve, he’s disntinctly a third rate club team player.
How many of the current Arsenal players would get into a Barca, Real, ManYoo, Cheatski, Inter etc.?
Some people need to make an effort to pull their heads out of their backsides.
@AKB Are Out in Full Force, There’s a difference between great goalkeepers and good goalkeepers, yes?!?
Valdez is considered the weak link in the Barca team.
Neuer, Handanovic, Adler and Lloris are good goal keepers but not in the same as league as Cech, Buffon and Casillas.
A 10 sec clip could make even a decent keeper look great. Which would counter your argument.
Lastly, just because you swear on the net it doesn’t make your point come through any clearer!!
PS: If Arsene didnt know best then Cesc would be a Catalan by now. He didn’t stay behind because of PHW or Gazidis or for that matter even cos its Arsenal. He stayed behind because of Arsene.
@Akash, PS: Of the 6 trophies Cesar has won he won 4 last season and under Mourinho. 3 of them against Italian league only opposition . If you watched the world cup you’ll know the first goal against that he let in was from a set play. The second too was from a set play (probably a lot more difficult to stop however)..
@Akash, Still can’t deny he is one of the world’s best. He won three league titles with Inter before Mourinho. Cech won some titles under him too, should those be discounted? What sort of an argument are you making here?
@Akash, Cesc is a Catalan. Unfortunately playing for Arsenal doesn’t make him English!
Let’s not get carried away. Cesc did not stay for Arsene. He stayed because Barcelona made a shit offer for our only true world class player and we (rightly) refused to sell for an insulting price. Otherwise, Cesc was willing to go.
Although we will never know, I’ll wager had Barcelona offered 60m, his proper valuation, Cesc would be in Barcelona today.
They all, to a man, sing the praises of Arsene Wenger; Henry, Viera, Hleb, Flamini, and on and on. I have yet to read a serious complaint about AW from a departed Arsenal player. But they still leave.
$$$ talks.
Here’s the deal. I run this here blog and while I might be someone you don’t agree with what we don’t do around these parts is ad hominem attacks. So folks saying that someone has their head up their asses is not something I’m going to put up with. I also don’t appreciate xenophobic, racist, or homophobic comments on the blog.
The tenor of the comments (mostly) is respectful. If you can’t contain yourself, fine. There are literally HUNDREDS of blogs, BBS, forums, whatever for you to spout off on. If you’re so insightful, I suggest you start your own Arsenal blog, they are free at WordPress.com and you can write how much you hate Arsenal or whatever you want there to your heart’s content.
What I find really hilarious though is people who support (SUPPORT) Arsenal and who think that somehow it’s an insult for others to support the manager. “AKB” they say, derisively, as if putting one’s faith in the demonstrably best manager that Arsenal has ever had makes someone an idiot.
It doesn’t.
Imagine for a second that Arsene Wenger was an investment banker like, say, Warren Buffet. Now, imagine for a second that this guy who had a long history of great returns, 13 years, in fact. Would it be irrational to support him through a tough economic period in which his firm was undergoing a major change that would make the firm better?
No.
Would you then turn to blog commentators for your views on why he’s fucking up because ENRON is turning in great profits?
No.
Because a person on a comment on a blog can tell you whatever they want. They can even lace it with emotion and make it sound like the sky is falling but the reality is that the returns on our investments are incredible. Our players are world class. Song could replace Mikel on Chelsea in a minute. Sagna is a huge improvement over, uhh who plays right back at Man U? Denilson is a huge improvement over Deco who Chelsea paid £8m for.
I could go on but I’ll stop.
I think the only people who need to get a grip are those who somehow look at the last 13 years and think “not good enough.” Wenger has made Arsenal into a superclub and I don’t care how long you’ve been supporting us if you can’t see that then you’re a lost cause.
@Tim, We’re not yet a superclub, I think. Your standards for “world class” and “superclub” are to my mind a bit permissive, but these are subjective judgments. I think we almost were in the era of the invincibles but for some reason we didn’t cement that status with better performance in Europe. We’ve been doing better in Europe since but let the league slip. We need a better pedigree in Europe and to win our own domestic league again more regularly to have that status. All the infrastructure is there–new, big stadium with massive matchday turnover, a great manager known for success, a huge worldwide fanbase, strong history as the dominant club in London (the largest and wealthiest European capital city). Unfortunately, however, we have but one established world class player in Fabregas and have not had the on-pitch success in the most important competitions yet that defines the world’s greatest clubs. Yet. When that first CL trophy comes, we will be.
I would rank only ManU, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, and Inter as superclubs.
Yes. Tim seems to see any criticism of Wenger now as criticism of the entire 13 years. I see it as:
1997-2004 – superb, outstanding
2004-present – well below his own standards
And yes I ackonwledge the move to new stadium as a factor, and no I do not think it is incredible to finish 3rd or 4th every year. And not buying a better goalkeeper this summer is Wenger’s nadir, just oustandingly arrogant and inexcusable.
@Limestonegunner, I think Juventus is deserving of a spot as a super club as well. They are the most successful club in the history of Italian football, more successful than both Milan’s AC and Inter.
If you discount Liverpool’s struggles over the past year which to some might lower them in there rankings but are they not a super club as well based on your criteria? They have been to 2 of the last 5 champion league finals, winning once.
@Limestonegunner, all outside observers rank us as a superclub in almost every measure. 2 examples come easily to mind: our UEFA coefficient (higher than Inter and Real Madrid) and our ranking as the 3 most valuable football team in the world (8th most valuable overall).
As for my standards of World Class. Juventus just took our third choice left back because (according to L’Equipe) they lack a starting LB. And I remember when Gooners wrote in comments that Adebayor had the “touch of a rapist” they were so pissed at him. Wenger held fast and turned Adebayor into a world class player. This happens time and again. Theo Walcott may not be fully world class, but he’s very fucking close. Robin van Persie is absolutely world class, he just started at lone striker for the team that made the World Cup finals, while Cesc was a bench player! How can you not say Robin is world class?
What about Arshavin? He’s not world class?
Thomas Vermaelen is one of the highest ranked center backs in the league, he is absolutely world class.
If Alex Song was English he would blow Gareth Barry away for the starting spot as holding mid for England.
Sagna is far superior to ManU’s “John O’Shit.” That’s their own nickname for him.
Denilson’s the current whipping boy — whip away. At 22 years old he’s better than Xavi was at 22. He’s better than Arteta was. I’d even say he’s better than Paul Scholes was at 22.
And finally, if your only standard of defining world class is winning trophies was Charles Barkley not world class? Marcel Dionne?
Sorry, but Arsenal are easily a superclub — we’ve won as many trophies under Wenger as Chelsea have IN THEIR ENTIRE HISTORY — and a lot of our players are world class. It’s not me being permissive. It’s just facts.
@Tim, Did I include Chelsea in my list as a superclub? No, I didn’t. Did I say my only standard was winning trophies–no, I didn’t specify my standard for world class players (which I will do below) but I concentrated on the issue of superclub status and listed numerous conditions, which we mostly fulfill. Where we are lacking is in the Champions League–you cannot be a superclub if you have no history of trophies in Europe–among other reasons that is why Chelsea is not a superclub. As far as Juventus, I left them off my list because they are slipping quite far, but they have history that we don’t, and if they come out of their bad patch and start to win again, they should be counted a superclub.
As I said, the measure is subjective and your definitions of both world class and superclub are to my mind either quite liberal or rose-tinted as a cheerful Arsenal supporter. I think I defined rather rigorously, however, my conditions while you are making a number of random points simply to bolster your pride in our club and praise our players, which misses the point. But, fine. I love our club and want it to actually be a superclub. You can love it and believe it is and rest on our laurels while mistakenly, I think, imagining we are already in the same class as Barcelona, ManU, Inter, AC Milan, Real Madrid, and Bayern Munich. If the leaders of our club and our players also already imagine that we are in that class, that is one more obstacle to actually achieving the success and status our club deserves.
As far as “world class” as a category. What can it mean other than a player who would make a world squad at its most generous or a world eleven in its narrowest? Lets be generous, then Fabregas is the only player who is one of two or three best players in the world in his position at Arsenal. RvP is my favorite player at the club; I believe he has the talent to be one of the top four strikers in the world but he isn’t currently because injury has derailed his career so frequently. Arshavin is among the best players in his position in the world but not in the top 2 or 3 given his play the last season and a half at Arsenal. The rest aren’t close enough to this status to warrant specific discussion.
None of this is to say that our squad doesn’t have terrific players, some of whom might develop at some point in their career to merit being “world class”. It doesn’t, however, help them or us or Arsenal to exaggerate wildly and bandy about the term “world class” so loosely. Young players in particular need to understand how difficult it is to really achieve success at the highest level and how much work goes into it. So while they need to be confident that they can play well, sometimes I think that the loose talk about how talented and young and world class our squad is has made some players a bit complacent.
@Tim, I should also mention something about the UEFA coefficients. These are a great measure of our past five years but not a measure for the overall history of the club which is very important as well. You have to have both, strong success recently and a history of trophies. That’s part of what makes a really excellent club great, a superclub. It is a lot like wanting to celebrate that we finish third or fourth in the league. It is consistent, high-level achievement and very impressive, but by itself does not put us at the very top since sport is also about the glory and ecstasy of winning as well.
As far as value and being such a rich club–that doesn’t mean much if it isn’t matched by on pitch success; it only dramatizes the problem, since a football club is about sporting success. There are no trophies for being richest or most valuable club–those are measures of the instrumental not the intrinsic worth. They are important since they are one index of your fan base and level of support from them, how much you are watched on television etc…, but the main value is instrumental–how the money gives you advantages in attempting to achieve sporting success.
Everytime I think about this years team the new eminem song pops into my head…
I’m not afraid to take a stand
Everybody come take my hand
We’ll walk this road together, through the storm
Whatever weather, cold or warm
Just let you know that, you’re not alone
Holla if you feel that you’ve been down the same road….
I think we can do great things this year.
Fortune favors the bold.
If we had been bold , we would have gotten a decent GK
@Josh, Sounds too much like “You’ll Never Walk Alone” for me.