Midfielders, Cesc, and Flamini. Yep, it’s Monday!
Not much going on this morning as the club takes a day off to celebrate their glorious back-to-back (that’s a bad ass fact) Emirates Cup victory. I did get a chance to listen to Wenger’s post match interview and a few things stood out:
We were in the market for a midfielder
A few of my readers have mentioned that they would love to see Arsenal buy a backup for Song and they will be happy to know that until this weekend, Wenger was actively looking for “a midfielder” as he put it. With our veritable cornucopia of attacking midfielders I have to think that meant that Arsenal were looking for a holding mid rather than someone to back up Cesc, Nasri, Rosicky, Arshavin, Diaby, Ramsey, and Denilson. Of course, with Wenger you never know, he does like attacking players.
It was more likely that Wenger was looking for someone who could fill in for Song when he was either out or forced to play center back. By all accounts Frimpong earned the spot and so we aren’t looking any more.
Which international team would you like to get injured for?
There’s also been a strange amount of chatter about players playing for their international teams. The other day, the boss made a bit of a slip and said that all the Arsenal players are full internationals which isn’t true: Koscielny, Almunia, Nasri, Walcott, and Denilson spent the Summer on the outside looking in on their respective World Cup teams. Now, to be fair, Nasri and Walcott’s exclusion from their teams was down to politics more than performance. Rumors are that Gallas killed Nasri’s World Cup and the England team practically begged to have Joe Cole installed instead of Theo. The point though remains, there are a lot of Arsenal first team players who don’t have to fly off and get injured for their respective national sides… yet.
Arsene was talking up the potential of both Jack and Frimpong suggesting that England should offer the latter a call up to prise him away from Ghana while simultaneously saying that Wilshere should be a near lock for the England Euro 2012 team. If the press are guilty of heralding the latest English hope then Arsene too must shoulder some of the blame here for rushing Frimpong and Wilshere onto the international scene. Though maybe I’ll cut Wenger a break, he’s probably just trying to highlight the fact that Arsenal are building English internationals, something we’ve been accused of failing to do since… oh pretty much since Wenger took over.
Meanwhile Poland asked Koscielny to sort out his heritage and come play for them which prompted him to issue a “come get me” call to France. If he really wants to play for France, what he needs to do is call up Cappy Gallas and beg to carry his bags or some other demeaning act. That’s sure to get him on the team. Or maybe he could just wait 5 years, get an English passport, and join the England team?
Break out the champers, Wenger’s buying!
The great news is that Arsene Wenger has admitted that Arsenal need 2 center backs and that the club are looking for “at least one” to buy. Pressed on whether he was angling for Per Mertesaker the boss remained coy, but clearly the club are doing something (other than promoting an 18 year old) which is very welcome news. Sorry, but Djourou looks very rusty, Koscielny has great instincts but is very light up top, and Song has never convinced in that position so I would love to see another center half come in to the team. Folks are speculating that it will be Mertesaker and the player has expressed an interest to join the club but I’d be surprised if Wenger signs a player like that: Arsene likes smaller, more technical players. Personally, I’d like it if we signed someone English. The boss should take note of the tackles Sol Campbell got away with in the Premier League last season and buy an English center back.
Buck Farça
Messi is confident that Cesc will sign for Farça, Cesc gets emotional at some fuçking Spanish rally, Wenger insists the player isn’t for sale and then issues a challenge for the young man to step up to the plate and announce his intentions publicly.
Frankly, I’m sick and tired of this whole thing but I know it’s not going to stop until Cesc says whether he wants to stay or go. Up until now, he’s hinted at it, the press have made more out of his statements than they were, and a non-stop river of effluvium has poured from the lips of every Barca player imaginable.
Stop the insanity, Cesc and tell us what you want to do. Do you want to win a trophy with a team that nurtured you and has been custom built around you or do you want to take Yaya Toure’s well worn place on the Barcelona bench?
Why are you booing Flamini?
I was listening to the Arsenal v. Milan match on the dot com and every time Flamini got the ball there were audible boos. What did Flamini do so wrong? Yeah, he left us and went to Milan for a bigger contract but he was a free agent and that’s what happens when the management lets a good player get away without renewing their contract, just like Chamakh. Why don’t you boo Chamakh? He’s a “greedy” player who left his club without any money for his transfer and got a fat contract at another club.
Think for just a second before you call him “greedy.” If you were working at IBM and Dell came along and offered you double your salary you’d jump at it and if you say that you wouldn’t then you’re either stupid or a liar. And spare me the sanctimony about how “football is different” from other lines of work or how you’d “play for free.”
Bullshit.
Honor the man and what he gave to the club. He gave 100% in every match, even as his contract was running down. He’s never spoken ill of us. He didn’t pull an Adebayor and lift his skirt for Milan while still under contract, he didn’t wreck his car when we offered him a pay increase and then have secret meetings with Mourinho while still under contract, and he didn’t beg to go ride the pine at Barcelona and talk shit about Arsenal after. It was Arsenal that fucked up there, not Flamini. Arsene didn’t value the player as much as he and Milan did and when his contract ran out, he left. More power to him and hope that Arsenal learned their lesson.
But boo him? That’s just lame.
Comments
As much as Frimpong has done well in the pre-season friendlies, it’s a serious gamble to take a few good performances in pre-season as he’s ready for the Premiership. I totally agree on the Flamini front, Wenger didn’t show enough faith in him and lets be clear that Milan are a quality side that most players would love on their CV. I don’t however agree that Chamakh did the same, he went to a bigger club to potentially raise his profile and international ambitions. For me Mertesacker would be a great signing and just the boost that the fans and the rest of the squad need prior to starting the season. One thing for sure is that we look a lot better in pre-season that our rivals. I see a top 2 finish as a minimum this season.
Cesc wants to go back to Farca.. but they hv no money to buy him.. so thats that..
btw.. Marouane Chamakh.. speedy.. excellent 1st touch.. footballing(strikers) brains to boot.. everything that Bendtner aint! i luv him already..
on a different note.. Theo Walcott.. /wrist.. how the hell can u train with the best footballers in the land for the past 4 years and still be that dumb!
p/s: having Djourou back from injury does NOT strenghen any defence.. pls take note Arsene.. and buy a fckng keeper FFS..
whilst i disagree on some of your thoughts re: flamini, booing him was definitely not on. in that one season, he gave us something that we had been missing, and missed for a few more seasons after. but up until 07-8 (his free-agent year), he was more aliadiere than petit/song. i would like to have kept him – more for the rapport he developed with cesc – perhaps we really could have pushed on in 08-9, but it was not to be. as i remember, there was a new contract on the table, but milan and he had already expressed mutual interest. and i further remember hearing something about flam, being of italian descent, grew up a milan fan? regardless, he left for milan and that was that. i would have preferred anyone who felt hard done by his decision to take the high road and refrain from booing, but at the end of the day, that is their choice.
Flamini might have been getting booed because there were a number of stories leading up to this past weekend where Flamini discusses what Cesc should do and I think a lot of folks probably interpreted his quotes, probably without even thinking about them, as him suggesting that Cesc should fly the coop. Just my guess.
I should say, I didn’t get the Flamini boos either. I think people were just bitter that he left us and we need(ed) a DM at the time. Not very classy.
ER…. No. He was offered a very good contract and he promised Wenger that he would sign it. Then Wenger played him, and let Diarra go. The honourable thing would be to sign the agreement that you promised to sign, or say that you are not going to sign a new agreement. In fact this is what Chamack did. No lies, just the truth. Bordeaux still played Chamack and Chamack ran the risk of a serious injury, knowing that he would be out of contract at the end of the year.
Flamini gave his all knowing that ACM were interested and lied to the club that gave him a big chance.
Flamini took a signing on bonus and high salary at ACM which was not surprisingly higher than what AW had offered due to the bonus and the fact that ACM were not paying a transfer fee. But he has played mostly from the bench, and the ACM President said that “They haven’t had the best from him”. I think the word mercenary sums him up well. He studied law before his “career” in football, he messed up Marseille with lies before coming to Arsenal, so at least he has been consistent.
@jb, wow, you sure seem to know a lot about this. Are you Flamini’s agent?
@jb, Hiya London Calling: Flam had the choice of going to either Birmingham or AC MILAN. He selected AC Milan. He was a free agent. I remember Flam as a very good player for the Arsenal, I personally liked him and his attitude during and after Arsenal. I would never boo him and was highly embarrassed by the supporters on Sat & Sun ( Emirates Cup). We can be so very precious, we supporters. I would take 30% rise of my annual income anyday, especially when my present employer dragged its heel and treat me badly. Arsenal was at fault re Flam, not him being greedy like Ashley Cole.
London: Out
jb: You are absolutely spot on. He should be called FlaMONEY. He lied and deceived, not just once but more times than normal. Diarra was allowed to leave on the last day solely based on his promise that the newly offered contract was good enough & that he would sign. It turned out to be a lie. And…
Tim: While I hate booing, I think a few facts need to be put into perspective.
No footballer can become a wonderful professional based on one season’s performance. Yes, Arsene challenged him to show that he is good enough to play & get a raise. He performed out of his skin mainly because he had the support of Cesc, Rosciky & Hleb solidly behind him. Then his ego got the better of him to the point that he overestimated his own self-worth. He forgot that the Arsenal style of play made him look wonderful.
So far, he has not really proved himself at ACM, has he? Watch his performance on Saturday again and tell us if in your opinion he is better than anybody currently playing.
So for me, he deserves his bench play. Though I do not support the boo boys.
quite a balanced post but i disagree on flamini and chamakh comparison.First flamini was average for 3 years.In his final year he killed himself for a contract when he was offere a contract in november he said he will wait until after christmas.that was when milan came in after his performance against them and he decided to leave.his excuse was he supported a.c.With Chamakh Bordeaux decided not to accept an offer even though the planner had said he will wait and leave for free if the offer was not accepted.Why do english supporters believe you have to be big to be a footballer?Puyol is not a gaint nor Maldini.the world cup should have told us that.We went with one of the biggest and most experienced squad but were still rubbish.technic and will power wins every day other wise Stoke will be EPL champions.
Honestly, watching the matches this past weekend, I can’t really say I dwelled upon Cesc that much. We play a dynamic style of football with AND without him. I would love it if he comes back and puts all this Barca stuff to rest, but if he leaves and we get the money we have coming to us, fine by me. If he wants to get lost in the shuffle and drown in a sea of Barca DNA, so be it. Arsenal will live on.
Some other abbreviated thoughts from the weekend:
Nasri – Reborn and could be a man on a mission this year
Vela – Signs of life
Chamakh – Bendtner better hope his groin recovers quickly; this guy’s good.
Djourou – No better than a 4th choice CB at the moment in my humble opinion.
Oh, and Theo Walcott. You did pretty well I suppose, but next time you’re that close to goal, squared up with the ball and no one in between you and the keeper? SHOOT IT!
@ArseChicago,
Where do Chicago-based Gooners watch the games? I’m from the city and want to bring my Dad to an Arsenal pub for the game versus Chelsea on December 26. We’re in the north shore suburbs but can travel down into the city…
Brian
Brian, there’s a big mass of Gooner faithful every match at The Globe, at Irving Park / Damen in the city.
i meant player.not planner
Spot on with Flamini, it was our fault he went not his.
Perhaps those booing should seek out footage of Chamakh’s last game in France.
The supporters waited en masse for him after the game, called him back out onto the pitch and sang and chanted his name for quite a while before letting him go.Watching it I got the impression that he could turn out to be an inspired signing
Also wrt Flamini, his performances noticeably tailed off towards the end of that season. In fact, Wenger came quite close to admitting a couple of months ago that certain players quit on the team that season. Go back and look at the records and you have Hleb getting himself suspended the last few games and Flamini getting an “injury” and wasn’t seen again. I think Wenger felt quite betrayed by how he went about things.
@Bill, Hleb’s suspension was out of character to his style of play.
Arse Chicago has hit the nail right on the dead.
I would have welcomed Flamini back if He hadn’t made those comments about Cesc. The fact is he did, so I booed as loud as I could.
A real Gooner legend like Thierry, or Bobby Pires would never do that, indeed they told Cesc to stay put. Also leaving AFC to sit on a bench in Milan has probably made him bitter.
Neil
@neil,
“I would tell him to to what he feels, because it’s a very personal choice and I cannot advise anything,” he said, as quoted by the Press Association.
“He will have to do what he really wants. If he stays or goes, I will support him because he is a friend.”
DAMN YOU FLAMINI FOR NOT GETTING PULLED IN TO THE FRAY…
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Anyone who claims that Flamini promised to sign with Arsenal needs to prove it, I want to see real proof, not just something you think might have happened.
Also, so many of you are forgetting the season before he moved to MF when he played at left back while Cashley Cole was out having dinner with Mourniho and all Flamini did was get Arsenal to the Champions League final, where Wenger replaced him with Cole.
Flamini gave everything for Arsenal in any position he was asked to play and was a brilliant player, Wenger should have renewed his contract in 2007.
I mean, come on, we sign Silvestre to a two year deal and can’t sign Flamini?
I agree, Flamster doesn’t deserve the booing. His quotes were nothing to get upset about either. But you know how people choose to interpret certain things.
@Tim,
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/flamini-the-master-of-beautiful-treason-1325365.html
thats the type of character flamini is
and how can you compare regular people and their salarys to football players.
if i make $40,000 at ibm and dell offer me $60,000 of course i will take it. it’ll make the mortgage payments easier and maybe i can get a better car. when somebody is making $40,000 a week and demands $80,000 is it in order to improve his standard of living. no, its greed. he’s already making more than he can possibly spend.
flamini allowed the contract to run so he could demand a big pay day. he wanted to become one of the highest paid players on the basis of one good season and zero international experience. he’s as greedy as they come. he deserved the boos in my opinion
@Chief Gooner,
these guys make in a week what most people make in a year.
these guys make more in a year than some people make in a lifetime.
wanting more when you are already grossly overpaid is about as greedy as human nature gets
@Chief Gooner, pretty much every player who has left Arsenal in the last few years has gotten improved terms. Are they all greedy?
Arsene Wenger makes £4m+ and hasn’t signed a new contract yet. If he gets a pay raise will he be greedy? Will people say he held out for improved terms? What if he goes to AC Milan and makes more money?
Arsenal FC has the highest ticket prices in the League and they make £70m a year in profits, their shareholders have become insanely wealthy off the work of those players and the fans who buy seats.
ESPN makes millions off the games and when it gets popular you can bet your ass they will ask for more.
I can agree that at times their values become distorted but there is so much money in the game right now that calling out the players for wanting a slice seems strange.
@Chief Gooner, flamini allowed the contract to run? He didn’t even get offered an extension the summer before, he had no choice but to let it run! Loyalty goes both ways, why should he make “reasonable” pay demands in January once Arsene realized he wanted him to stay?
And as for the greed part, no matter how much money people make there’s always a way to spend more. There’s no good reason to stay at a club that you have no roots at, with a manager who’s shown repeatedly that he doesn’t think much of you, when there’s another club, in a city and country that are probably more to your liking, that appreciates your talents more and thus is willing to pay more.
@b, and as for the “beautiful treason” (i do love that phrase, btw), what does it say about Wenger’s character that he was willing to play along with such a dick move?
Fact is, loyalty is dead, it’s a business and everyone’s only looking out for themselves.
‘beg to go ride the pine at Barcelona’ Hahaa nice use of language, yea chamakh is more than highly regarded at bordeaux, he was considered a god to them, well.. according 2 my french boss
Arsene Wenger stated publicly that Flamini had told him he would sign. He also said recently that he was shocked when told that he was leaving. Check the references and you will see.
In any event, Denilson came in the next season and made more tackles and many more interceptions and goals than Flamini, so no big deal that he left. The only stat that Flamini dominates Denilson over is fouls committed and yellow cards.
@jb, Sorry Jay, you make the claim you back it up.
This is the first thing to pop up when you google “Wenger Flamini Contract”.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/apr/19/newsstory.sport7
Wenger’s quoted as saying: “We are getting close to yes or no,” he said. “He says he wants to stay here and I believe him, but as long as he has not signed he is free to sign where he wants. We have set ourselves a target for the end of the month of April to finalise the situation one way or the other.”
Nothing about promises, just an apparent expressed desire from Flamini to stay. I guess money won over that desire.
Always read your blog, and enjoy.
Just one point.
Chamkh did not do the same as Flamini. Bordeaux, Chamakh former club refuse to agree a free around 8M for a player with year lft on his contract. They were asking around 15-20M. Arsenal refused to pay silly money as we are not Man city, R; Madrid or Chelski. So Arsenal and Chamask waited for the end of his contract. It’s as simple as that.
You can’t compare him to Flamini. Milan didn’t make us any offer.
Flamini is a money oriented player, I don’t blame him but it’s a fact.
@Paul, you’re right, Chamakh was more devious than Flamini. Chamakh knew that Arsenal were interested because we had bid on him and subsequently refused to sign a deal with Bordeaux knowing he would get a great deal at Arsenal.
Flamini had no such guarantees and took his chances with free agency.
As for the “money oriented” jibe, all players are money oriented. Hell, some people would even say Arsenal FC are money oriented in that they put making money over winning trophies.
@Tim, Bordeaux had time to look for a replacement. At the beginning of the 2007/08 season we had three DMs. At the end of that season we had non.
As I said I blame Arsene for trusting Flamini. He should have forced him to sign a contract extention in January or sell him to keep Diarra and Gilberto. Well, well ….
@typeface, losing Diarra and Gilberto is Flamini’s fault?
Diarra was upset that he was behind Flamini in the pecking order and instead of playing his way into a starting spot cried like a baby and demanded a trade.
Arsene totally screwed up with Gilberto who is an all around good guy but who Wenger clearly had no further use for and who because he turned 30 and his last name wasn’t Silvestre was only offered a 1 year deal.
I’m assuming you’re being sarcastic, Tim, labeling Chamakh as “devious” for not signing a contract with Bordeaux, right?
@ArseChicago, of course. The whole point of comparing Chamakh to Flamini is to show people that all these players are the same.
Hell, Chamakh got an even bigger payday with Arsenal. His signing on fee is reportedly £12m+
Who was more greedy?
£12m?! Where did you get this from, time to provide your evidence!
@Bull, I have no evidence.
Just the same rumor and lies printed in the papers about Flamini and Campbell:
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-agree-25million-transfer-deal-for-Arsenal-and-West-Ham-target-Marouane-Chamakh-article285677.html
Come on Tim that’s not quite correct. The article says that liverpool are offering that kind of money but Arsenal would offer nowhere near that? In any event you can’t have it both ways, you can’t rubbish other peoples quotes when they come from dubious sources and then quote similar sources yourself.
I enjoyed the booing.
Flamini is a sneaky bitch. Nobody booed Viera nor will they boo Edu for leaving us for more money. Just ask Marseille fans how they feel about Flamini’s departure and compare that to how Chamakh was celebrated by Bordeaux fans during his last game for them. Why? Find out yourself and no it’s not just about a big paycheck. Arsene misjudged Flamini’s character, but he really should have known from the way he left Marseille.
You’ve got a nice blog but sometimes you are well out of order. You didn’t like seeing a football player get booed? Fine, but stop telling me Bullshit when I don’t appreciate a character like Flamini.
@typeface, maybe the Bordeaux fans appreciate their players? I know that the Bordeaux president didn’t appreciate the way that Chamakh left the club:
“It was written that he wasn’t recognised at fair-value here in Girondins, which forced me to think.
“They joked that he was underpaid, if at any time he wanted, he could have improved his earnings situation. But he has never complained,”
“We have proposed extensions to Marouane. Our first proposal was on January 1, 2009,” he said.
“He said he never spoke to Arsene Wenger. But I find it strange that he could be recruited by Arsenal without talking to the coach!
“I believe that Marouane Chamakh has been surrounded by very bad people, he’s a generous boy, available, friendly, but I think he was badly advised. His departure from the club and how it happened doesn’t suit me at all,”
“I enjoy the fact that I am the President of this club, but since I became President of this club, there have been two complicated departures: those Sylvain Wiltord and Marouane Chamakh… And coincidentally, both chose Arsenal,”
@Tim, I remember Arsenal fans giving Edu a very warm farwell at his last game at Highbury when everyone knew he was leaving. And we sang Viera’s name when he came back in Juventus colour.
Oh, and here’s Arsene’s response to Triaud’s complaints:
Arsène Wenger has invited the president of Bordeaux, Jean-Louis Triaud, to a public debate in order to clarify the position over his interest in Marouane Chamakh.
Triaud’s reported complaints that Wenger had been underhand in his pursuit of the striker, who has less than one year to run on his contract, clearly got under Wenger’s skin. “If he is ready to make a comment, I’m ready to sit down with him here and to explain to you what he said,” Wenger said. “Then I will answer eye to eye. It’s very difficult for me to understand any statement of that kind from him. I don’t agree at all.
“I’m not angry because I look in the mirror and know what I did – I don’t need any special comment. We can sit down here with the player and the president of Bordeaux and have an explanation. I’m sure the president of Bordeaux will agree with what I say.
“I have never seen a story like that where something is in the newspapers every day because they talk. I’m not completely convinced about your translation [of the stories] but the communication between the president of Bordeaux and myself is very clear – I kept him informed on everything that happened.”
nice article. agree with almost everything you said, the only thing i do not agree with is the idea that we need an english defender. whenever we have gone down the english route it fails. Besides, the english players just aren’t good enough most times
@aaron, Is that a fact?
Quote from Arsenal.com May 9, 2008
“I am not frustrated because I know the rules in this job,” said Wenger. “The guy is free, he can go to somebody who pays him more.
“Myself I have fought my whole life to get good wages for the players. I feel every player deserves good money when he becomes a top player and good money gives you the freedom to do what you want.
“He said he wanted to stay. If you say ‘no I want to go somewhere’ that is OK. But you cannot say ‘I want to stay but I go’.
And there was another quote in a press conference earlier in the year expressing the point that he wasn’t worried about his contract situation because he promised to sign. The above quote highlights the dishonest approach of Flamini clearly.
To match the sign on bonus and wages ACM offered would have meant that Flamini was the highest paid at the club. AW was not going to do that.
@jb,
That’s as self-serving a quote as possible. Wenger’s myopia in Gilberto, Diarra, and Flamini left him feeling like he needed a target.
Do you know exactly what was said between the two? No, you have Wenger moaning about a free agent who he should have tied down the year prior.
As for the wages thing, I argued for Flamini on that one. I think he had a great point about how much it would cost to replace him and that a signing on bonus would be fair. Wenger choose to conflate the two and call it his “salary” in order to make it look like Flamini was holding out for a huge sum which he wasn’t.
You can rest assured that Chamakh got himself a tidy signing on bonus and if you do the same math that Wenger did it probably makes him the highest paid Arsenal player ever.
The point of all this is that players do what Flamini did all the time, but when it benefits Arsenal (such as Chamakh, Sol Campbell, Wiltord, etc) no one says a peep but when it happens in reverse we get all tetchy and start calling the player greedy and booing him.
I say look at what the player did on the pitch and appreciate that. Flamini gave 100% every time he was on the pitch in an Arsenal shirt.
@Tim, Sorry, not Wiltord, we bought him.
How about the way Sol Campbell left Arsenal? He asked to get out of his contract so that he could “play in Europe” and then signed with Pompey.
Then this year he turned down a contract with Arsenal for a few more dollars at Newcastle.
Campbell is as “greedy” as they come. Will you boo him when he returns to the Emirates?
You folks just don’t like Flamini and that’s your right but don’t try to take some moral high ground about how the player is “greedy” when we have plenty of examples of Arsenal players doing the same.
@Tim, I would have booed Flamini because he was years late into a tackle and stomped Koscienly foot. I watch AC Milan routinely and can tell you that is Flamini’s standard m.o. This was only a friendly and it was uncalled for.
+5 just for using the word “effluvium”. Brilliant.
OK TIM,
I was just trying to correct a mistake you made as you always try to back you articles with some true facts, but I can’t help you if you think you’re right anyway, and that’s it.
Arsenal were prepare to offer 8M to Bordeaux for the remaining year on Chamakh contract. It’s well documented. Bordeaux asked for far more, and it’s was unbelievable from them. You chose to omit that fact in your reasoning, because you want to back Flamini ? Good luck to you.
But Flamini and Hleb leaving was a huge setback for us. Flamini will warm Milan bench until the end of his contract and will walk to another club free. He did the same to Marseille and Arsenal. Good luck to him. I don’t blame him for leaving as a free agent, but I don’t blame anyone who wants to boo him. Chamkh did nothing wrong. he fighted for Bordeaux until the end, and was their most commited player until the end of the season.
You’re just wrong to compare Chamakh and Flamini.
@Paul, You have no idea what Arsenal offered Bordeaux for the right to talk to Chamakh or what Bordeaux asked for in return.
I have made no mistakes in reasoning. My point is that people want to dislike certain players and so they will overlook Sol Campbell’s actions or Chamakh’s actions but use Flamini’s actions as an excuse to boo him.
Don’t forget that Chamakh publicly flirted with other teams in the Premier League and if we are going to talk about rumor, what of the rumor that he used Liverpool’s interest to drive up the signing on bonus he received from Arsenal (reportedly over £12m)?
Flamini gave 100% until the end as well. He was carried off the field in the 41st minute of the 4-2 loss to Liverpool and didn’t play again for Arsenal due to the injury.
@Tim, The Chamakh deal is 4yrs, 12mil (50k/wk).
Sunderland and Liverpool were interested but Bordeaux said they didn’t consider Sunderland worthy of Chamakh’s talents.
@Tim, You have no idea what Arsenal offered Bordeaux either. You quote the dailyfail and at the same time shrug off Arsene’s quote as an excuse for screwing up Flaminis resigning. You were the one who called Bullshit when referering to the fans booing of Flamini as evidence for us being bitter when more important players like Edu left us on a free without bad blood. The fans have their reasons and it’s not always about money. You just prefer to ignore them and set up your own theoretical framework (while comparing totally different situations) as to why Flamini’s actions are unquestionable. They have every right to let him know how they feel about his behaviour as much as Sp*rs fans have every right to feel agrieved about the way Sol had left them. It’s football for God’s sake. What’s next an article where you slag us off for booing Ashley Cole? I remember him always giving 100% whenever he played for us.
I’m not moralizing, just giving my reasons and I’m not the one calling your reasons Bullshit.
@typeface, none of the sources are reliable, they all have an agenda.
I didn’t say Flamini’s actions were unquestionable. I just said that booing him is in poor taste especially in light of how many players Arsenal have gotten on a Bosman.
Chamakh and Flamini are similar, sorry you can’t see that.
Tim
Flamini never denied what AW said, and he or his agent certainly would have if it was false. Chamakh is not one of the highest earners in the club, Campbell was when he signed several years back, and Campbell left this year because he was not guaranteed games (as he’d be 4th choice).
I think Flamini was a squad player that played quite well as a left back reserve and very well for the one last year of his contract.
@jb,
I think he made it clear that he did want to stay but that he wanted a signing on fee so there’s nothing to deny.
By the way, that’s the same kind of fee that Arsenal gladly paid to Chamakh, who flirted with Liverpool and West Ham this winter in order to drive his bonus up.
And if you do the math the way Wenger did it with Flamini that’s how you get ‘Chamakh is the highest paid Arsenal player.’
Wenger tried to play hardball with Flamini because he didn’t value the player as much as he was worth, the same way Wenger played hardball with Bordeaux, and Campbell, and Henry, and Cesc, and everyone else. Unfortunately, Flamini played hardball back.
You don’t think realistically that Flamini should have taken less money to play at Arsenal, do you? Would you take less money to stay in your job?
@Tim, I thought the West Ham U ploy by Chamakh made him out to be a bumpkin negotiation-wise at that time. Mid table, no CL, bad finances, who was kidding who?
@jb, Flamini was the original “headless chicken”.
Arsenal supporters are likely bitter about the Flamini situation as he was one of the more vocal, fiery and animated leaders of that team in 07-08 that was 8 pts top the table early in ’08. Many people put the finger on his departure as the reason that Arsenal fell off, relatively speaking, the next season. Thankfully Song made people forget Flamini somewhat last year, but the wound isn’t fully healed for some. Aside from all that, supporters were led to believe he wanted to stay and then he didn’t. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy.
Tim.
Wenger was specific (Midfielder – defensively)when talking about Frimpong and Jack and saying how now he won’t need to buy. I’ve realised Tim alot of times Wenger talks about the same thing in different statements and alot of people do not understand him.
As much as I am frustrated with the Cesc situation, I think being mad at this particular incident might be unecessary. He just won the World Cup and was given a tribute by the town he was born in. They gave him a jersey from the hometown club (not Barca) with #4 on his back and cried thinking about his grandfather who passed away. I don’t think it’s anything we should get upset over.
@Sairax,
spot on. thats exactly what it was. just another twisted attempt by barca fans to turn us against cesc.
I think everyone’s missing the point Tim is trying to make here. It isn’t about bracketing Flamini or Chamakh as greedy bastards. He is just trying to say that they were both free agents, both free to sign where ever they wanted. And that is what they did. Whether it was due to personal ambition or Money or Milan being the Beyonce of Europe, it does not matter. Nobody shold be judging them for the choice they made because they were free agents. They did not belong to any club at the point they signed their new agreements.
@Akash,
it does matter. flamini screwed us over in my opinion. the way he went about the whole thing deceived our club. it cost us a quality player and a transfer fee.
wenger made him a decent offer, which reflected his contribution to the team and value to squad. instead he joined an aging team where he wouldn’t be first choice and wouldn’t be in champions league.
chamakh said he wanted to come to arsenal a year ago, gave bordeaux the chance to accept a reasonable offer from arsenal for a player with 1 year left on his contract but they chose to request ridiculous fee. they are very different situations.
i think all gooners were a little shocked when milan announced they signed flamini. on the other hand chamakh told bordeaux he would not be resigning.
bordeaux’s greed cost them a big transfer fee. flamini’s greed and deception cost arsenal a quality player and a transfer fee. thats why i think he deserve his boos.
and anyone that believes chamakh got a 12m signing on fee doesn’t know anything about arsenal. why would the club refuse to pay the transfer fee last summer and then pay him something crazy like that that this summer. makes absolutely no sense.
and not all players are greedy. van persie has said a few times he could get more money somewhere else but all he wants is to win at arsenal.
Denilson has always stood up for Cesc on the pitch.
Thsi offseason is no different
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Denilson-has-hit-out-at-Barcelona-over-their-vocal-pursuit-of-Arsenal-s-Cesc-Fabregas-article543741.html
i completely agree with the author’s take on the flamini situation. as far as i know, going into the final year of his contract he was on 5k a month. a good wage no doubt but considerably less than many of his teammates. he asked for a new contract but was refused. he was told he had to play for one and wait till the season’s end. he played brilliantly that last season as we know. and bravely. had he suffered serious injury he would have been left high and dry and out of contract. he was only offered the 60k contract he wanted at the 11th hour. had the club shown more faith in him he’d still be under contract and at the club. the club made an error but perhaps no-one could have forseen that he would improve so much. there were, and still are, a number of promising midfielders at the club at the time, and he was seen as perhaps being surplus to requirements. although let’s not forget the sterling work he did as a makeshift fullback in the champions league final season. this new breed of arsenal fan are a fickle bunch. flamini did not deserve to be booed.
Why did we boo flamini?
Maybe we are like the girl that’s not a slag, but keeps having geezers tell her she’s pretty, f*ck her and then leave her for the same kind of guys.
If every season the players that you supported when they were young,cr*p,unknown or out of form turn around and make it very obvious they would prefer to be with someone else then this is probably the way we are going to react.
Patrick, Overmars,Petit,Henry,Flamini and now Cesc. Don’t kid yourselves, they left because we were not glamotous enough for them.
Let Cesc go. Would you stay with your wife when she obviously fancied someone else but gave great head?
Maybe your right, keep him another year!!!