Gael Clichy yet to recover from Eduardo tackle
Some journalist should interview Gael Clichy about the effect the match against Birmingham had on his career. They could title the piece “Gael Clichy yet to recover from Eduardo tackle” or maybe “Arsenal fans yet to forgive Clichy for Eduardo tackle” because from what I can tell the genesis of Arsenal supporters current disdain for Gael Clichy stems from that game.
From that ugly day forward he was always going to have to put every foot in the right place to keep Gooners happy, and predictably he has not. Several high profile mistakes in games kept the target on his back and as his Arsenal career progressed he became the object of public derision from very popular figures within the Arsenal fold.
Perceived or real, opposition managers have picked up on Arsenal’s defensive frailties at left back to the point that I can’t remember how many times I wrote “they are targeting Clichy.” This idea that teams target Clichy shows up in the numbers as well. On a normal team the defensive midfielder will lead the team in tackles and Arsenal’s Song manages a very good number with 3.3 per game but in an unusual twist Clichy leads Arsenal with 3.4. If you take out Vermaelen’s numbers (because he only played 5 games) Clichy also leads Arsenal in interceptions with 3.4 per game.
Just to give you some perspective, Evra played in 35 matches and averaged 2.3 tackles and 2.3 interceptions. Ashley Cole played in all 38 games for Chelsea and he averaged 2.6 and 1.3. Adding those numbers together you get the following:
- Clichy 6.8
- Evra 4.6
- Cole 3.9
And then there’s clearances. Again, removing Vermaelen because of his paucity of matches, Clichy is Arsenal’s 4th most prolific player in terms of clearances at 4.5 per game — Sagna is right behind him with 4.2! Ashley Cole manages just 1.2 and Evra just 2.7 per game. Clichy gets 4.5 clearances per game while only winning 51% of his aerial duels — now, not all clearances are aerial but it’s still a telling number in showing how often this player is picked out of the Arsenal back four for long diagonal balls and other defensive duties.
Again, this is born out by the numbers: adding all three categories together you can see that Clichy is very active defensively.
- Clichy — 11.3 key defensive plays per game
- Evra — 7.3 kdpg
- Cole — 5.1 kdpg
Ashley Cole is called on to perform less than half the defensive duties of Gael Clichy! Those numbers would be great if defense was his only job.
Part of the reason the fullbacks are targeted at Arsenal is because of the system that Wenger runs. Fullbacks, like the center-halves, are regularly exposed as the team press forward and hold the ball in the opposition half. Both left and right back are crucial to this system in terms of moving the ball and providing width and there have been numerous matches where either Clichy or Sagna led the team in passes per game. Typically, that happens when a team floods the midfield in order to choke off the supply to Cesc.
In this case, you would expect that the Arsenal fullbacks would have a high number of completed crosses per game or perhaps a decent number of assists but they don’t and I have to wonder if that plays a part in some of the stick Clichy gets. For example, Sagna had 3 assists and 2 goals and also averaged a higher percentage of passes at 87% while completing an average of 1 cross per game. Clichy had just 2 assists and 1 goal in all competitions and completed 80% of his passes and zero crosses per game on average. I don’t have a number for “key fuck-ups per game” but my feeling is that all of Arsenal’s defenders suffer from this affliction. Though, it would be very interesting to see how much more frail Arsenal are in that category than others.
All of this raises a question for me: who is going to replace Gael Clichy? Arsenal need a player who can shoulder the burden of being constantly exposed due to the system that Wenger plays, targeted for long balls, derided by fans for every mistake, required to sprint forward and back, must pass at a rate that makes average midfielders look poor, and needs to be able to provide crosses into the box for a team with one real center forward.
Sorry kids, that player doesn’t exist and I’m starting to understand why Clichy refused a new contract: playing at Roma will look like a walk in the park compared to the demands of Arsenal’s system on their fullbacks. He might even start to look like a good defender in a league that doesn’t just bomb big diagonal balls forward.
The reality is, that is the League that Arsenal play in and I can’t see it changing any time soon. So, to replace Clichy you are going to need to decide what type of fullback you want. Do you want a big player who wins a lot of headers? Maybe Boukary Dramé from Sochaux is someone you would look at. He won 65% of his aerial duels and was second on his team with 6.2 clearances per game.
If instead, you hire a big center forward to dominate the middle of the park and then want a player who can whip in crosses and is generally more offensive minded then maybe it’s Leighton Baines that you would look at. 3 completed crosses per game along with 1.95 key passes per game and an amazing 11 assists — oh wait, I mean seven goals and 12 assists in all competitions — put him clearly in the “wingback” mold. With those numbers and his work rate defensively which isn’t horrible (2.2 tackles, 1.3 interceptions, and 2.7 clearances) he might even be a viable replacement for Arshavin on the left. At least occasionally when he’s not playing fullback.
It looks like Clichy is heading out the door and I know that will make some happy. But for me, he’s going to be a very difficult player to replace and how Wenger replaces him (more offensive or defensive, more height, more crossing) will give us a clue into the direction the team will take next season. After all, no fullback, that I could find, is the alpha and omega.
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Comments
Very intresting reading. I think Wenger will go for Vermaelen on left back.
I’ve actually always felt this but it was purely on a hunch/based off of what I saw. Any chance you could get Jose Enrique’s stats ( clearances, tackles, assists and crosses)? Thanks
good riddance.
nvr rate him ever..ashley cole for life!
I have never been a big Clichy fan, but I do think the above assessment of how he is going to be tough to replace is a valid one. I don’t think opponents are targeting Clichy per se, but rather the full back position because of our system and specifically the left back position because they may have a better attacking player on the right (like Nani or Valencia for Utd.). Or it could be because they just think our left back will be more vulnerable because Arshavin is not tracking back or that Sagna is stronger of the two. I guess the point is our system does not make it any easier on our fullbacks and whether Baines can step up to the plate (assuming Everton is even willing to sell him) is still up in the air because Everton does not play a high line as much as we do.
Having said that, I think Clichy’s biggest flaw as a fullback is how ineffective he is going forward. Yes he has a few mental lapses in defense over the course of the season but I also remember him making a lot of good saves as well. However, he is consistently poor going forward. Anything good out of him in attack is an anomaly. I am thankful for his years of service and in a sense sad to see him leaving but I would love to see someone with better attacking sense come in and take that position.
BORINGGGG
@A G, SO IS YOUR COMMENTTT
What do you think of Emilio Izaguirre as an option? I haven’t seen too much of him but it seems like he’s a hot commodity right now.
Fabregas wants to leave to
What a load of shite. The problem with statistics is, they don’t tell the whole story. What’s the point of one person making more clearances or tackles than another if in the same game they make calamitous rickets, like failing to track their man from a set piece, losing their marker, losing possession halfway up the pitch, playing someone onside when the rest of the defence has pushed up.
Clichy might make loads of clearances and tackles, but it doesn’t mean he’s anything less than useless if he’s dropping his team mates in the shit time and time again.
Some players make less clearances and tackles because they read the game better, you don’t HAVE to tackle if your positioning is good. Tackling is usually a last ditch action to win the ball; defenders who tackle all the time are usually poor positionally. This results in them making errors in other ways that cost the team, errors that won’t be found in your dumbass statistics.
@James, James, go eff off eh? Would you rather have a post saying, “I think Clichy is great! you know he is just so fast and runs a lot!” One uses stats to support an argument, not completely define the argument. If you have read this blog before, you will know that Tim uses numbers and data to provide arguments rather than opinion. If you want an opinionated blog go read Le-Grove. We all know that statistics fail to paint a complete picture of the situation, we don’t need you to come gloat about it. Wanker.
@James, So if something doesn’t tell the whole story, then it can’t be used to paint any part of a story? That seems irrational to me.
For example, you said “defenders who tackle all the time are usually poor positionally” that’s specific enough that it should be measurable. Looking through the teams, no defender who played more than 10 games made as many tackles per game as Clichy. So, there could be something to your argument.
That said, I tried my best to qualify the assessment by asking questions and I would do so here. Why is he so poor positionally? Is that because he’s just retarded as some people like to say or is it because of the system he plays in? I tend to think the latter and in which case it won’t matter who we get, they will be exposed.
As for errors per game, like I said, I’d love for someone to look at all 43 League goals conceded and create a matrix that shows exactly who was at fault for every goal.
Showing who was precisely at fault for every individual goal wouldn’t work anyway, as quite often Clichy makes errors that he gets away with because the opposition fails to take advantage. In another season he might get punished a lot more for his mistakes, and in bigger matches. There’s no way to define it, except to say Clichy makes constant errors of judgment that make him a ticking time bomb.
The fact is, your post is in support of Clichy but uses lop-sided statistics to support it. In other words, it’s biased.
@James, Dear God, no! A biased blog? Heaven forfend! I thought only purely neutral facts were allowed on the internet…
@James, So, what you’re saying is that your subjective evaluation is that Clichy is a poor defender which you prove by saying he makes “constant errors of judgement” for which you have “no way to define”. And then you conclude with the point of your posts: I am biased.
Odd.
Sorry if I offended you. I honestly believe that like every other defender in the world, Clichy makes mistakes. These mistakes are exacerbated by Arsenal’s system and by the fact that Arsenal’s opposition target him.
The numbers also show that overall he tackles very well, and despite your protestations, reads the game very well. If you want to say that no defender should have to tackle 3.4 times a game, I would agree with you that there might be problems with his positioning. If you want to point to defensive lapses on set plays, again, I would agree with you. But qualitatively don’t you wonder what part the lack of organization from the center backs, lack of organization in the club, and Arsenal’s crazy high-line with the two “wing players” not contributing defensively play in that?
I’m more than willing to concede that maybe Clichy is utter shit, but I have a really hard time reconciling that view with the fact that he averages more tackles per game than almost any other active defender. I also have an especially hard time reconciling that with the fact that he gets 3.2 interceptions a game (fourth in the league I think) which means he must be able to read the game at least a little.
So, maybe he’s utter shit and worthless but I don’t see it and you haven’t convinced me otherwise.
In conclusion, he is leaving Arsenal, not the other way around, and he’s been an absolute class act about it the entire time. He didn’t hand in a transfer request, he hasn’t had his father make stupid remarks about teams that may or may not want him… he simply refused to sign to extend his Arsenal contract.
Unlike Denilson, I’ve no doubt that a big name team will snap him up. Maybe they are crazy just like me.
@Tim,
End of the day, these stats are skewed. I have seen similar stats a few days back on a liverpool site which included stats on Enrique also.
What it doesn’t show is how supportive the surrounding players are, e.g Arshavin and possibly Wilshere. So perhaps he is getting more involved, more touches etc, depsite his ratios being decent, the stats don’t show his confidence levels etc and he looks pretty shakey to me. Sagna doesn’t seem to have the same problems as Clichy does. I wouldn’t say Walcott is a huge help to Sagna, just as Arshavin isn’t a huge help to Clichy.
Even without these stats I think it’s time for a change at left back.
Skewed? How so, in the collection? Are the Arsenal player’s numbers being collected differently?
I saw those same numbers today (someone posted the link in here) and if anything they substantiate my argument more. For example, A.Cole attempted 100 tackles and Clichy 111, why are Clichy’s tackles per game numbers so much higher? HE COMPLETED 81% OF HIS TACKLES compared to A.Cole’s pathetic 67%.
He also had almost triple the number of interceptions per game that Cole had. Clearly a defender who is clueless and runs around like a headless chicken who talks like a dolphin…
i think that because he has so overloaded, it is inevitable that he will have concentration lapses, brought on by mental fatigue.
like you said, all defenders make mistakes, in Arsenals’ case, we concede more goals to chances created by the opposition…therefore it almost looks like every mistake that a defender makes leads to goal…which makes them look bad
Gael got tons of abuse after the Brum game for giving away the penalty those scumbags equalised from. Most people conveniently forget that it was a blatant dive, Clichy actually cleared the ball without touching the man, and the ref that day was a cunt who refused to give us a stonewall penalty for a foul on Nik.
You’re right though. Since that game, Gael has been abused constantly and derided as the weak link in the Arsenal back line. His numbers certainly bear out the fact that his position gets targeted more than Sagna’s, and I dare say he’s doing pretty good.
Part of the problem is that we’ve now gone “6 years without a trophy”(trademark pending). I remember Paddy had his share of fuck-ups, but nobody screamed that he was a weak link, and opponents never targeted him in hopes that he would make a mistake. They went for him looking to get him sent off, but that’s another matter entirely.
Gael is the reason we didn’t miss Cashley so much when he left, and if Gael leaves, we are going to have an almighty hole at left back. People are saying TV5 should move out there, but I don’t buy him as a full back. Being required to bomb up and down the wing game after game would burn him out faster than Michael Owen’s hamstrings. Gibbs has been unconvincing and seems to be made of glass, Traore has got great pace but not much else in his locker, so we’d be in the market for yet another player.
Baines has been decent enough going forward, but I’m not convinced by his defensive numbers.
Would be interesting to directly compare Sagna and Clichy across all stats. I am sure our left flank is pinpointed as a defensive weakness because Arshavin is absolutely rubbish at tracking back. Usually the only help that Clichy gets is from one of the midfielders, typically Wilshere.
Would be interesting to see what happens if Arshavin left and then Nasri, say, played in front of Clichy.
Year in, year out, Clichy does not improve those areas in his game that need improving. Just yesterday, I was watching a replay of our game against Chelsea in Nov, 2010. Clichy is tracking the man with ball and he just stops when man crosses the corner of the box and lets him go free. Ridiculous.
@ctpa,
You are a strong man to watch back on that season!
Would you also say that Sagna suffers as much from such tactics and Clichy is just being victimised by the fans ?
I’d agree with James although perhaps he may have worded it kinder.
Clichy has a great work rate, but is usually all over the shop defensively and as you point out, pretty poor going forward. That being said, when there isn’t anyone in the box to cross to, he could be putting in top notch crosses all day and it won’t matter.
It could aldo be because he is exposed by Arshavin, but I think that when managers target him, those statistics can’t defend him. They perceive him as a weak link and rightfully so.
Thanks for the memories, Gael, but I won’t be sorry to see him leave.
Good read. You could be right though about the Birmingham game being the start of Clichy abuse. Myself I’ve never forgiven him. I have never ever seen someone turn their back to the ball the way he did. It doesn’t matter that the recovery tackle was valid and the ref shouldn’t of blown. Turning your back on the ball the way he did was just crazy. The goalkeeper was nowhere near the ball, so why did he do it?
All defenders make mistakes, due to pressure from the opposition. But clichy makes mistakes when there is no pressure! Cole was a far better player and I was sad to see him go. I will be happy to see the back of Clichy.
I’ve seen him do crazy things, and Arsenal always seem to get punished as a result.
There’s a fair few twats on here proving Tim’s point perfectly.
You tabloid headline reader’s will soon get bit on the arse when we struggle to find an adequate replacement.
My first choice for replacing Gael Clichy was Fabio Coentrao but looks like a deal with Madrid is pretty much done.
Clichy’s problem is two fold.
1)He offers very little in the final third in terms of goals and assists.
2)He has too many moments where he has inexplicable “brain farts” of major proportions which result in goals conceded the majority of times.
He has failed to improve or even match his outstanding performances of 4 seasons back and in my eyes has regressed.
We continue to say that our FB’s get caught out of position too often, or are targeted overmuch. That may be true, but is all related to our defensive rotation or lack of it. Under Petit, Viera and Gilberto, when a FB moved up in attack the CB on that side would occupy the FB position and the DM would slide into the middle as a CB and therefore we still maintain our shape and defensive organization.
Since Gilberto left, more and more we rely on our wingers to track back and help out defensively but it leaves the space open which was vacated by our FB. Teams who watch film will see that frailty and attack the spots which will be open.
Even Barca employs the older method as you will consistently see Busquette and/or Mascherano providing cover at CB when Abida or Alvez is screaming upfield.
The other negative to our new rotation method is that it forces our wingers to spend more time in the defensive half rather than in attacking positions, tires them out because of mileage required and is one reason we can’t seem to get bodies in the box when we attack. Also, asking attacking players like Arshavin and Theo who have very little defensive skills is just another case of asking players to do something to which they are unaccustomed instead of utilizing their best assets.
Our recent history of failure has seen us try to fit square pegs into round holes. Players are consistently asked to play out of their natural positions. We have a host of CM’s who are continually asked to play wide, a winger who should be a striker, AM’s who are wingers and CM’s playing as DM’s. Even Fab has said he prefers the more deep lying “Xavi” role and his his stats tend to bely that.
Until we bring in players to fit the formation and style or change to fit the existing players we are going to have consistency problems.
@Caribkid,On the wingers. Pedro and Messi are not great defensively and yet they track back and harry and press to regain possession, hell even Villas does. Why would it be so hard for Arshavin and Walcott to do so?
@Josip,
Major difference here Josip is that Messi, Pedro and Villa are asked to defend mainly in the middle and offensive third of the pitch while our rotation is asking our wingers to consistently defend in the defensive third.
Secondly, the minute Barca loses the ball a swarm of 3-4 players will attack to regain possession unlike most of our players who will hand the defense off to someone else. They have excellent team defense and constantly press when not in possession, unlike Arsenal.
Also, why ask a player to do something he is not suited for when you don’t have to do so. That’s one of the reasons Walcott and Arshavin tend to get off the pace in the second half.
@Caribkid, I actually agree that we need a new system to defend when our fullbacks are called into attacking positions. I thought up of something different though.
Instead of our cdm moving back and our cb moving to the sides, I say that we have 3 cbs instead while the cdm in the side of the fullback who’s gone forward marginally moves closer to the side(but barely).
For example, Clichy goes forward. Then Vermaelen will still be a lcb but slightly move to the left to give space to koscielny in the center, while Bac moves into the rcb
@LMG, B role. And then Wilshere moves slightly to the left while arshavin moves into a supporting position for Clichy or just to the center. This way we have more opportunities when attacking since we’re not compromising a figure in our midfield. And let’s say there’s a counter attack on our left, wilshere will be the first line of defence, if he fails Vermaelen goes to the full back position (with minimal movement as well) while sagna an koscielny are our cbs. What do you think of this? I’d love to hear opinions on this and please do find faults
@LMG & Josip,
Either way could work depending on the players you have available. The key factor here is to maintain your defensive shape even when attacking.
our fullbacks cop it because we generally have arshavin and walcott in front of them who couldnt tackle a wet paper bag
and i am still trying to figure the purpose of mentioning eduardo other than to get hits
@silentstan, You can’t honestly believe that anyone is clicking on this site because they’re following Eduardo, can you? I like the guy, and what happened was a shame, but seriously… in football terms, it was a long time ago already.
Poor positional sense.
Can’t cross.
Never scores.
Hardly ever assists.
No right foot.
He cost £300,000 from a bankrupt French 2nd division side.
You get what you pay for in life.
@Old Stager, He does actually have a right foot, seeing as he started out as a right-sided player. He had to school himself to use his left when he was younger. This is, IMO, why he’s not so hot on crosses.
And your list of criticisms would make more sense if you were talking about an attacking midfielder, or a winger. Criticizing a full-back for not scoring is sheer asshattery.
@Greg, “asshattery” – about sums up a bunch of the comments today.
@Old Stager, actually cannes play in 3rd div now,the same club where zidane and viera come from,one of the best academy in french football
For me the Bolton game was a great indicator of how Clichy, despite his individual skills as a defender, brings the whole defense down.
Cahill gets free of Song in the box… Clichy sees this and LEAVES HIS MAN, Sturridge, in a futile attempt at – what? I don’t know – try to get to the ball first? Of course he fails, the ball is nodded on net where we make the initial stop, but because Sturridge is free, lo and behold a simple tap in off the rebound.
The commentators were rueing Song’s marking, but honestly, Cahill used a pick to lose Song and was active, that is asking a lot of Song. But in my opinion it’s not asking much to ask Clichy to keep a calm head and DO YOUR JOB.
That’s just a single example of why I salute Gael Clichy for many years of good solid service, he certainly gave us some good games, but ciao baby, good luck in Rome.
Send us DeRossi in exchange.
http://www.anfieldindex.com/2685/liverpool-fc-transfer-scouting-stats-left-backs.html
that’s where the stats are probably from
@Andre, HOLY CRAP
No. The person who writes that blog has access to the full Opta stat package. I don’t have the money to pay for that.
Those are much, much, MUCH better than what I had and only confirm what I was saying: despite people’s perceptions, Clichy is a damn fine defender.
start a collection. I’m sure avid arsenal fans would be interested in funding research for their favorite Arsenal blog.
I’ll be more than happy to contribute
@Andre, “So, unfortunately, there’s no all rounder in the left back department but two players shone in separate areas. Gael Clichy, surprisingly, was the best defender just edging out Patrice Evra and Leighton Baines was standing tall, by far, the best attacking left back in the Premier League this season!”
Funny, I came to the same conclusion.
@Andre, Most interesting. Although 1 mistake in defense seems a bit of a joke. I wonder what actually qualifies as a “mistake” and how the stats would change if it was instead categorized as “defensive brain farts”.
@Andre, found the link in a blog somewhere and thought that’s where the stats came from. I personally rate clichy and think that he fairs well with the lack of help he gets from our left wingers.
It’s an excellent point that maybe Clichy is fed up with the high line system. I wonder if that is not the case too with Nasri. Maybe he wants to play more centrally, instead of being on the wing.
Clichy cant concentrate.Its his biggest fault.As for going forward how many times in a whole season did he beat the first man with his crosses?Once?twice.he wont be missed.TV will be LB next season
How many crosses do you expect TV to put in?
@Gooner Bob, yes let put our best cb at left back …genius.he can cover at left back but he is not a freaking left back
@Andre, It says Clichy: defensive errors: 1. That’s just not true.
The crux of your Clichy stats are wrong.
The more tackles you make in a game is not good. In fact, the less tackles you make suggests you are the better player, more often than not.
Great defenders never need to tackle, because they are one step ahead.
I believe if you look at stats from Gallas during his best Chelsea year, he made 5-6 tackles all year.
Oh, and I agree re: Eduardo. THAT was when Cliche’s malaise started. From that day onwards. And he started the chain reaction for that season’s implosion. Sad.
I was against it in the beginning, but I’m starting to really like the idea of TV at LB. Fact of the matter is, most top teams only really use one attacking wingback. At Barcelona, Alves is clearly more attacking than Abidal, at Real, Marcelo more than Ramos, at Munich and Inter during the Mourinho/Van Gaal year, Maicon and Lahm were by far more attacking than Badstubber and Chivu/Zanetti. Also, Abidal, Ramos, Badstubber, and Chivu were all known to play CB at stages of their careers. Having a Back Four of (TV-Samba/Djourou-Djourou/Cahill-Sagna) would be much more stable than the current model. It’s not like Vermaelen can’t get forward, and it’s not like Clichy’s crosses will be a big loss. We could even play Koscielny at RB and Gibbs at LB for some match-ups.
@IcamefortheArsenal, I dont think Koscielny has the engine to play RB but I am not against the idea of TV5 on left back as that would give us more defensive solidity (provided we get two new good CBs) and he would also get more chances to make better use of that rocket of a left foot.
Why does everyone seem to want Vermaelen on left back?
One of the reasons, if you read history, that Tottenham didn’t pursue him harder the year before we got him, was that he had stated very openly that he did not want to play left back, and that his preference was to be a CB.
He won’t be happy on LB.
This is one of those mysteries in life. Like how did aliens build the pyramids.
My analysis of the whole fullback situation is that at the moment neither of our fullbacks offer anything of note in the offensive third. As a result, we are not able to generate threats from wide areas, and are too predictable. Teams can defend compactly with no downside.
Since Sagna is better than Clichy, I think we should get rid of Clichy, and get an offensive wingback to play on our left. Someone like Baines would be brilliant, and I think we need someone of that calibre for it to truly pay off. How would Barca be without Alves? They would surely be easier to defend against. We need someone like that. Desperately.
I think I enjoy the arguments more than the artical…..
clichy is heading for the door so do we realy care what his stats read?????
I think it is ironic that people are finding a way to criticize a defender for making tackles. Let’s give Assley Cole some credit, he made less tackles then Clichy.
Here’s my thought .. if 6 out field players can’t provide/ create enough chances then I think it is too much to blame a defender to be the offensive weak link. A defender should’ve judged on his defending not his offense. Its like saying we missed vermaelens goals this season. Having said that Clichy does suffer from recurring ill timed brain farts.
@Akash, should be not should’ve…
I blame Arshavin for Clichy going. Gael’s defensive numbers are so busy simply because the lazy Russian refused to track back. The same thing will happen to his replacement as well unless tactics/formations change. Arshavin should be the one shipped off. Hopefully though, this will be an opportunity to replace a solid starter with a ‘world class’ player.
A key point needs to be considered. With the amount of possession Arsenal tend to dominate, offcourse our fullbacks will look impressive. The concern always comes at how easily exposed they become on the counter attack.
Evra might average less…but He is solid enough to keep united defence strong as any.
Our defence is prone to mistakes, regardless of stats – we have lost 3 points many times due to school boy errors. You don’t really need numbers to appreciate its simplicity.
Why people constantly talk about clichy as anything but top class is beyond me. The problem with arsenals defence lies with the need for a new cb but the midfield not doing their job good enough
Nice to see the use of data & stats even if it doesnt paint the whole picture. I believe Clichy makes some high profile errors but is also a victim of Arsenal team set-up and Arshvin failure to consistently help out defensively. There are plenty of examples where teams didnt appreciate the inputs some players could contribute to their team unitil they had gone. On that subject and more, I found this article really good and balanced regarding the development and use of stats in the premiership http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/9471db52-97bb-11e0-9c37-00144feab49a.html#axzz1PyzH4YNu
He’s a poor defender. Offering him the accuse of watching a bad tackle is desperate to say the least. You must be his agent.
He’s not improved his game and at elite level, you get found out.
excuse not accuse.
What’s clear to me is that Tim has showed that Gael is a pretty good at defending and works much harder than other comparable LeftBacks. In fact a Liverpool blog with more statistics that Tim has access to came to same conclusion. With this kind of evidence some people are ready to escort Gael out of the Emirates. Most of these counterarguments grab one mistake and make it seem like Gael makes it every 10mins. All players make mistake at least with Gael we know he has the speed to recover.
What would preferable is to provide competition for Gael. I would love to keep Gael and bring in one of these so called better players.The better player will shine through.
One final thought. At least the unjustified claims that Gibbs is the solution are gone. He is fantastic going forward but has to work on his defensive game.
I suspect that the truth lies somewhere in the middle of all the asshattedness.
I have truly lost count of the number of times I have watched a team attack down our left (I sit behind the goal, upper tier North Bank hooray the 6.5%) and watched Gael defensively do nothing – not go out and close down, jockey the player wide, make a tackle and let him run in to the area, for which I think his decision making has got worse over time.
However the system and other players are clearly at fault. he is clearly terrified by the inability inside him both the lack of covering back by the slowest DMs in the prem (denilson particularly but Songs recovery trate isnt that hot) not knowing if he ges and attacks the player if the CBs will slide and cover him; getting exposed 2 v 1 by lack of effort in front of him.
I think sometimes he is trying to do 3 or 4 jobs (defensive duties of LM, DM, CB and his own LB) when if he just went out nauled his man even if thee opposition scored the blame would be apportioned appropriately whereas now he gets the blame for others (including AW and our defensive coaches errors). Gibbs is also guilty of similar errors but being young and not having had a decent injury free run gets less criticism so maybe it is down to the system and other players.
Maybe Clichy is going because he eoither wants the money for three players as he’s doing three jobs to stay or just having to do his job.
He does have the brain farts but he isnt the only one.
Someone mentioned the Bolton goal earlier. That just reflects the paucity of Arsenal set piece defending. Cahill lost Song far too easily and was then in the 6 yd box. This is incredibly dangerous and a CB should have moved to deal with the situation instead of primly holding their man. No one stood up and took responsibility but Clichy at least used a footballing head and tried to respond. He ends up in no mans land because it took him a while to realise no other dopey forker was going to do the job and so doesnt quite get there. In the end his man scored but off about 10 rebounds which is phenomenally unlucky.
I think that actually is true for Clichy’s career he always gets shat on when he makes a mistake. The brum ‘non pen’ was initially an error in losing the ball, nicely recovered then ludicrously penalised.
Overall he has been a good player for Arsenal I think maybe its best f he goes as part of a general shake up defensively but I do respect the honour and class shown in his dealings with the club.
Thanks Gael
I wonder if Clichy would stay if we bought a left winger player who will back track for him. If we get Gervinho, will he back track and even drop back when Clichy makes his runs?
As a supporter I have my favourite players, one which may even surprise Tim and Clichy is one of five favourite players (abet at the lower order). Question: In my opinion you can tell the makeup of a man and his thought process in football, if in 10 years he has never been made Captain of his team, not even at the NOT important games. So many players has been and gone, yet at no time has Clichy been given the Captain armband. BUT I will miss him (if he goes); because I feel he has been an excellent defender for the Arsenal. We as supporters have our prejudices and sometimes we cloud our vision about what’s good and what’s bad about the players we support. I personally do not want him to go, but maybe take a back burner role, but that opens another question about who would be number one left back at Arsenal…. that’s a very big question. Game On.
P.S. Lots of pictures in the England newspapers of JW19 and his preggie girlfriend in Sardinia…. some of pictures are foolish and not necessary.
Pretty amazing discussion, Tim. Moneyball all over again. The dim-witted English won’t ever admit they are wrong.
Other comments – even some English – are more properly placed at the crux, which is what stats best clear the fog? You point out that both Clichy and Sagna’s tackle a lot. Is that because they are bad at defense, or good? Did Ashley Cole make more tackles at Arsenal than at Chelsea? Perhaps it’s a team game after all.
If you listened to the Arsenal fans and the media, you’d think Arsenal were the deficient team in north London when it comes to scoring. They aren’t, but their failings get huge press. And they defend better than Spurs. And le’s face it, Tim, this is a team sport, and the challenge is to understand each persons role in the squad.
If Arsenal were so poor at set pieces, it stands to reason as an excellent team with a very good GA number, their defense in run of play must be one of the best, no? And might not that be due to the high performance of the two wing backs? Maybe more tacked, clearances, interceptions, etc leads to fewer goals conceded. Maybe the tackles that Evra and Cole did not make led to clear attempts on goal, rather than the complacent and sloppy logic that asserts less is more. Not on the field; oops, excuse me, the pitch. Perhaps if Sagna and Clichy were English and making so many tackles, the AIS part of the fan base would extol their effort and determination.
Two other things: clearly, to anyone who doesn’t think Wenger is a fool, there must be a cumulative offensive and defensive benefit to the wingers bombing down the side and putting the ball in. What is it? More chances, more times the ball is in the box? More corners? If all one does is moan about poor crosses, one isn’t saying anything useful. You’re the stats man, and I applaud your efforts, but Sabrmetrics is all about context and maximizing edges that favor you – it killed the stolen base; what tactic will stats kill in soccer?
Finally, there is one aspect of the Arsenal defense that the in-stadium fans have total control over, and that is how loudly they support the home side. Early this year SI published an in-depth study of home field advantage, touching all top pro sports over many years and in many countries. They found the largest advantage came in soccer/football. Deeper analysis showed that many alleged factors for this – the travel, the peculiarities and/or strangeness of the venue, etc did not show any statistically significant correlation with home and away performance. The primary cause is fan support and it’s influence on referees. Since soccer has the fewest officials per men on the field and the least standardized rules, plus the fewest scoring events per game, it’s not surprising that ref vagaries have the hugest impact.
And it’s not surprising that Arsenal are weak at home, relatively speaking. The 12th man in defense – the crowd – are a bunch of lazy slackers who would rather pout over ticket prices than rail against injustice against their team. Any group that would condemn a second- string striker as worthless because he missed one chance in a big game are useless. And their impact is huge.
What about the away support, you ask? We, it’s nearly unanimous that the away support, tho smaller in number, is of vastly more support to the team. Proves my point.
So instead of bellyaching about Clichy and blaming bench sitters for failing to score or defend – which they cannot any better than the fans if they are not playing – I suggest the whining ticket holders think about getting off their expensive benches and loudly and continuously support the team. If they don’t, the refs will destroy Arsenal’s edge even if it has a squad equal to it’s best all-time eleven in their prime.
Pause for breath; wipe brow; rant finished.
@BayGooner, The one time that I can remember that our home fans actually went mad at an injustice against us was Everton and their ridiculously allowed goal. Surprise surprise.. The team actually turned that around and won. It may not be the only factor. It may not even be the deciding factor. But surely as fans, we should be providing all the help we can to make us win the match.
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Totally agree with BayGooner re the usually pathetic support shown by the majority of the home support at the Emirates.
How the “out of favour” players ever perform with the negativity they receive beats me.
Back to Clichy, it’s seemed to me that he gets targetted by opposing teams because when Arshavin plays on the left, Clichy gets less cover defensively than he might expect. It’s no surprise that our best run of first team performances last season was when AA was dropped to the bench.
I am not sure if Pires did any tracking back during his time at Arsenal; I sure know that Pires only made one tackle during his stay at Arsenal, while Cole was playing behind him. Not only did Cole defend well, but he scored goals as well. Blaming Arshavin is a lazy excuse for our weakness on the left.
@DF, Believe you’re referring to the period in time when the Arsenal’s left flank was the best in the league/Europe/MilkyWay. Consisting of one of the best LBs ever, despite my immense dislike for his character. Personally I’d rather have this situation with Song. I’m fairly biased like most supporters when I watch games but I seem to swear more at his poor passing/decision making than Clichy’s. Or I could have been spoilt on watching Gilberto and highlight reels of Cambiasso.
Clichy is a decent defender but he’s not good enough for the kind of team that we want to be. That he hasn’t learned to cross consistently with either foot all these years is quite an indictment. But that wouldn’t matter if he was rock-solid defensively, but he’s not.
Sagna is not only better offensively (he’s learned how to cross, although not everyone has noticed), but virtually never makes a mistake that leads directly to conceding a goal.
Regarding the idea that Arsenal’s high line doesn’t suit Clichy… I’d suggest that the high line plays to Clichy’s strength, which is pace. If any defender should be suited to playing Arsenal’s high line, it’s Clichy since he is quick and does little offensively.
I’d like to see someone like Baines, if only because opposition defenders will have to take him seriously. Everyone knows Clichy will do absolutely nothing at the offensive end.
I have a suspicion though that we will start the season with Gibbs at LB and Vermaelen or Eboue filling in when Gibbs is injured (ie. all the time).
Come and join a real footballing team, king kenny will turn you into the best left back the world has ever seen.
YNWA
IN KING KENNY WE TRUST.