If Scott Dann is the answer what is the question?
I’ll take “Signs Arsene Wenger suffers from Neurosyphilis” for $200, Alex
In 2011, needing a center half, Arsene Wenger purchased this player from Birmingham.
Who is Scott Dann.
CORRECT!
Reading through the papers this morning I, of course, saw that everyone is claiming Arsenal bid £10m for Phil Jagielka and that the bid was rejected. Even the Beeb is reporting it as fact and yet I cannot find a single shred of evidence that supports the claim that Arsenal actually made a bid for Jags. There are no quotes from a direct source, there are no quotes from an indirect source, there are no sources named at all. In fact, there are no facts that I can ascertain from any of the various articles reporting this bid as fact.
And yet, people believe that Arsenal have actually made such a preposterous bid. Last season, it was confirmed by David Moyes that Arsenal made a bid for Jagielka and that bid was rejected. At the time, the bid was reportedly in the £12-15m range, depending on which source you believe.
After Arsenal tried to unsettle the player, he could have just waited out his contract and come to Arsenal this Summer, probably increasing his salary significantly in the process. But what did he do? Signed a new four year deal with Everton in March.
Now, I don’t know about you, but when I read a story that says a player who is under contract for four more years, who just had a bid rejected last year, we come back with a lower bid and there are no sources attributed to the story I tend to think “well this is utter bullshit.” That said, if you need to believe this story, because it confirms your mythology that Wenger is cheap and that Arsenal bungle transfers, go right ahead.
Me?
No thanks.
And you should be especially concerned that Scott Dann’s name is linked in the same article. Look at my chart above.
The first three are Arsenal’s current center halfs (minus Vermaelen who didn’t play enough to count for me) in descending order of their overall rating by WhoScored.com. Below them are 8 players who have been linked to Arsenal in the past who could fill the position of any of those three you see above. Those are also organized in descending order by WhoScored.com’s overall ranking of those players.
In addition, I have marked the Bundesliga players in a different color because since they don’t play in the Premier League, their numbers (especially clearances) are odd. But even with the Bundesliga players’ numbers being odd, you still would chose any of the other 10 players over Scott Dann. Scott Dann is not good passing the ball, doesn’t read the game well (INT and offside #’s are terrible) and he only made 20 appearances last season.
Personally, if there were any player on that list I would take it would be either Hangeland or Cahill. They both fit what Arsenal need; someone who will clear the ball on set pieces, can pass the ball decent in open play, can read the game well defensively, and have experience in the Premier League.
If you want to take a chance, you go after Mertersaker who tops all others in aerial duel percentage, interceptions, offsides drawn, passing, yellow cards and fouls. Those wary of his clearances per game and blocks must read those as relative to the league that he plays in. The Bundesliga just doesn’t have defenders who are forced to clear the ball 12 times a game like the Premier League does. Nor are they making a ton of blocks per game.
But the last guy I’d be excited to see in an Arsenal shirt next year is Scott Dann. And even Jagielka doesn’t look like a good fit, numerically. Which people will now point out as flawed and “not telling the whole story.”
Yes yes. We know.
But we also know that it’s highly unlikely that Arsenal made a derisory offer for Phil Jagielka. It just doesn’t make any sense.
Comments
i think Kyle bartley will be the “new signing” lol. He wont have 5 centre backs.
Agree with the article. Cahill is the man for us.
I’m with you – I think the Jagielka ship sailed last year.
Besides, Everton would be left with whom exactly if they let their main CB go? Nobody. Moyes is not stupid or suicidal and he is not a transfer market genius, so the cash will mean little to him (or the club) over having an established defender on his roster already.
I don’t thing we’re signing anyone on defense. At this point I’d be really really surprised.
I don’t think we’re signing anyone else besides Gervinho… period.
Dann’s pretty good, although it would surprise me if we went for him.
He doesn’t get so many interceptions and offsides because Birmingham, if I remember correctly, play very deep as opposed to Arsenal’s high defensive line. Arsenal’s defenders often step out either to intercept a through-ball or to spring the offside trap.
He’s asked to defend on his 18 yard line, tackle and clear – which you’ll note he does pretty well compared to the others on your list. His pass percentage is low because he’s often asked to hoof it up front, a low-percentage pass.
So all in all, if we’re looking for someone who’s expert at defending in his own box from set-pieces… he sounds pretty ideal.
Again, I’m not convinced he’s the answer but there are worse out there.
Cheers
Roger Johnson averages 1.9 interceptions, 11 clearances, 1.4 tackles, 1.2 blocked shots 0.7 fouls, 60% aerial duels, and he played in all 38 matches for Birmingham.
If I’m forced to take anyone off that shit team to defend deep and kick balls out of defense, it would be Roger Johnson, not Scott Dann.
Thank you for possibly the best piece of AFC transfer related writing I’ve seen…anywhere.
In past seasons AW has been very loyal to his players & with
Vermaelen fit again, I don’t see him pushing Djourou or Koscielny back a place in the squad by bringing in an average over priced English player.Much more likely to not sign anyone & give Bartley & Miquel a tussle for fourth place CD with Squillaci.
Last season with a Djourou & Koscielny pairing we we fine defensively providing the whole team played their part.Too often some players were slack in their positioning & lazy in their contribution to closing the opposition down & tracking back. If AW signs another CB , fine, but I think it’s far more important for the whole team to be less complacent off the ball & better organised in this respect.
The BBC and SSN have reported it, both of whom are usually reliable sources so I’m not sure why you think it is highly unlikely. It is exactly the sort of thing Arsenal/Wenger would do!!!
@Dave the gooner, sarcasm correct?
Good piece. I like that you looked at the news with a critical eye and said, “where are the verifiable facts?”
Honestly, though I am generally a fan of statistical analysis and would not sneeze at Mertesacker joining, if I could pick from these various CB options I’d like Subotic, based on my anecdotal experiences watching him. Haven’t seen much of Dann, or Cahill really.
If you think we’re in fantasy land talking about Mata or Hazard transfers, Subotic would be an acid trip extraordinaire. I think Hamburg is looking for 35m for him. And Bundesliga teams have absolutely no need to sell, they’re all healthy financially.
@Masterba…ker, If hamburg is looking for 35M, I wonder how much borussia Dortmund, the team he actually plays for, is looking for?
Hamburg… Borussia. Whatever.
I love how my comment gets thumbs down by the simpletons out there so it can’t be viewed, and your smart-ass retort about a little mistake gets thumbs up. Two words for you and the “fans” of your comment; Get. Bent.
You got to let the thumbs down thing go, brother. I bet MORE people read comments that get muted than other comments. I could uninstall it, I suppose, but I kind of like it.
I just find it… astonishing (I don’t know if that’s exactly my feeling, but close) that if one posts anything just mildly critical of orthodox Arsenal blog-thought, that you get essentially “booed” by the crowd.
I personally don’t vote thumbs down on anyone unless they’ve posted something racist, sexist or outright rude. Differing opinion, or in my case here, simply saying that Subotic is not a realistic target, that should be left alone.
@Tim, DUDE… you got a +4 on your earlier comment that Arsenal aren’t going to buy anyone.
Relax Francis.
@Masterba…ker, Wow…just wow
@VolsnCards5,
1. you got thumbs down because you think hamburg and dortmund are the same. if you don’t know what team subotic plays for, why should anyone credit the figure he’s supposedly being sold for by people who don’t own him. if that’s how you do business, i’ll sell you the brooklyn bridge for only 5 million pounds – it’s tall and sturdy, with tons of experience – veritable bargain.
2. I never claimed Subotic was realistic. I just said, from the list of non-Arsenal players Tim compared I liked him best. I also love Essien and Juan Manuel Vargas, but I’m not holding my breath for them either.
Like I said – get bent you self-important prick.
I made a mistake naming his team… big fucking deal.
http://www.footballrealm.com/2010/06/in-demand-neven-subotic/
Guess what – I made a mistake on the amount too – its 25million.
So tell you what Piers Morgan… how about you let me know your email address, and I will send you all my future posts for quality assurance and quality control before I post on this site. Because heaven forbid I get something slightly wrong for a fucking pretty much meaningless blog entry.
You can click thumbs down on this, and then maybe get your kids to log on and click thumbs down too, if it so makes you happy.
@Masterba…ker, What does get bent mean to you exactly? Cuz to me it means hammered, which I planned on doing anyway.
Tim,
So “widespread reports” isn’t an attributable source for transfer -gossip- news? Do you realize that by not accepting it as gospel you are not supporting hundreds, maybe thousands of talentless hacks, mostly in the UK, that pose as sports journalists? How will these gobs feed themselves and their families during the offseason when they can’t gorge on the press room spreads? Think of the children Tim!
@Albie, A compelling appeal, really.
Hack? Did someone say hack? I need to go check my phone messages, maybe some transfer news…
I dont rate Jagielka at all so if they are talking £20m then they can f*** off. I’d say Bartley is better than him now. I dont know that much about Dann, so I wont comment on him but the stats dont look great.
Cahill has always been the one I want. Samba, Mertesacker and Subotic would be next.
I actually think Vermaelen staying healthy (no laughter, please), Djourou staying healthy (again, stop that damnable laughing), and Koscielny provide really good options. In fact, if Bartley takes Squillaci’s place, I wouldn’t be all that upset. Squillaci is so shit, it’s unbelievable. You know how some players bring an injection of pace into the team? He brings an injection of terror and confusion. It’s just the wrong situation for him, I think. So TV5, JD, and Kos plus Bartley or the like would, in my eyes, be just fine. Of course, any addition from that list would thrill me, too. I won’t refuse it. I just think we’re better off at the back than is commonly shrilled. Our real area of defensive weakness is not the center pair, but at left back, especially with Clichy gone and Gibbs to step in.
Our deepest need is midfield. Song needs cover. Fabregas may need to be replaced. Denilson is gone and Diaby is… well he’s probably considering what to do with all those months this season on the table. We need more (and better) bodies!
@GoonerNC, I think this is it. We do not need a new cb we need a def- mid and strike. Verm will be massive.
Ohh I’d LOVE to see Antolin Alcaraz in red and white! You can watch him next sunday in the Copa America final vs. Uruguay
I put him in there for you! As far as I know he has never actually been linked to Arsenal but his numbers are outstanding. For the number of tackles he makes his foul numbers are very good.
@Tim, Thank you Tim!!! I like and rate him very highly. In Copa America groups stage against Venezuela, Paraguay played with 3 CBs, playing Alcaraz at the right. He was very mobile, sometimes even bombing forward as a seasoned fullback. He’s good in the air, and cuts opposition’s passes very well.
As you might have heard, Paraguay reached the final without winning a single game. In 240 minutes (first Brazil, then Venezuela) didn’t concede a goal. In the match vs. Brazil Alcaraz had an outstanding performance.
As a final data, previous to Wigan he was playing in Belgium Brugges. Maybe there’s something in the water for CBs in Belgium
What was the problem with our defending this past year?
Taking out the goalkeeping (which I think is a non-issue now because Szcezny is the real deal – better than Gea by the way), in my opinion, it was; marking on set pieces, miscommunications between defenders on set pieces and in open play, the occasional poor clearance, and inability to win aerial duels against the odd giant Serb and the tactical nous to know when the high line is not working in our favour.
Oh, and midfield cover was sometimes non-existent, especially for the left-back.
I really don’t think we lack defensive talent… Koscielny handled MESSI the one game, and Djourou did a job on Drogba for crying out loud.
But what I think everyone (including myself) would like to see added to the team is a general at the back, a leader, solid and able to sort the defense out besides adding his own defensive talents. Experience. Strength. Respect.
But couldn’t all our defensive woes also be fixed by PROPER DEFENSIVE COACHING? I mean, in the end are we just hoping for a great CB to join us because we know that AW pays almost no attention to drilling his defenders and paying any attention to that aspect of the game?
My $.02.
@Masterba…ker,
I have been saying for 2 years now that our best signing would be a defensive coach and would come a lot cheaper than Jagielka at a reported 19M.
Nuff said
You can have the best defensive coach in the world but it won’t make a difference if you haven’t got the talent for them to coach. TV5 aside I’m not happy with the quality of CB we currently have.
@Bull,
Keown was working with Toure, Senderos, Eboue, Clichey (inexperienced at the time, Cygan, Campbell and Lauren was injured for the most part.
We still had the best defensive CL record ever.
Agreed that we may need a Samba like upgrade for aerial battles, but an organized defense would go a long way to curing most of our ills.
Hello everyone… Its summer in the city (London) except if you live in London, you will know the weather is pretty crap at present. I have just gone online at Arsenal.com to buy a ticket for next Saturday’s Emirates Cup, and guess what… I purchased a ticket next to the one I bought two months ago in the West Stand. It is true what they say… success breeds success…. and failure breeds contempt. Where are all the Arsenal supporters from Asia from the USA and other countries who are currently holidaying the UK? Tickets are still on sale to see the legend Terry Henry at the Emirates. If we don’t fill the stadium, we will not have adequate funds to buy the expensive quality players the supporters keep badgering on about. The circle of life.
Tim: Yes I agree with you about the Phil story which seems odd and might be a curveball… maybe distracting us from someone else… and yes Arsenal does not work that way it’s all about shshhhhhh. I have always been a Cahill admirer though and would love to see him in an Arsenal shirt…. but I would not be too upset if we don’t buy him and bought someone else.
I see Bartley announcing himself to the world about his capabilities and maybe it’s time to use him as the fifth/sixth course…. and what has happened to that nice Miquel (I think I spelt his name correctly ) captain of the reserves. I was impressed by him last year…. maybe it’s time for him to be ” a man my son”…
To conclude, do we really need another defender? I am just putting that out there but in my humble female opinion, all we need is a George Graham type defensive coach to teach, to tutor, to school and to position our current defenders.
@London Calling, Miquel = loan spell after CC run ends.
@London Calling, who holidays in the UK?
Tim,
Where is Samba?
When sell-on fees were considered, his price inflated into the 14-15m range.
Nice player for maybe 7-8m, not twice that amount.
@Masterba…ker, Ouch. Didn’t have that info.
Too bad, cause I kinda liked him most than some of the players on this list here.
I’m looking at you, Scott Dann.
@Teampossible, Samba is dancing on the Rio.
@Tim, No less than Ferdinand deserves.
Forget which defender Arsenal bid for..The real news is that Howard Webb is going to be a movie star..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/8651176/Oliver-Brown-Howard-Webb-assumes-starring-role-for-men-in-black-in-the-film-The-Referees.html
@Shard,
Footballs greatest gift would be if he becomes a successful thespian and never have to referee another game ever again.
“we know that AW pays almost no attention to drilling his defenders and paying any attention to that aspect of the game?”
Are you sure the man who coached an undefeated squad pays no attention to drilling his defenders?
“(turns to Pat Rice) Hey Pat what is that one tall guys name?
“Johann Djourou, you signed him a few years ago.”
“tell him to run around that side of the pitch more and kick the ball away more!!!”
Really, paying little attention to the defensive aspect of the game? The team plays a very difficult defensive scheme. Did the squad just pull the high line and offside trap out of thin air?
Ah no, you can’t go that route with my comment.
When a team REPEATEDLY makes the same mistakes on set pieces, that is either an indication of a) IQ deficiencies on the part of your players, or b) inadequate drilling of the defenders during practice.
By comments and admissions this past season by the players themselves, Wenger does not drill tactics in training, and instead focuses on reinforcing his style of play, encouraging talent and skill displays, and decision making.
Tactics can be ugly and robotic when used, it’s why coaches with lesser talented rely on them. To quote Mourinho, tactics is a dirty word, he doesn’t like tactics (wink wink).
Anyway, yeah, I do think sometimes Wenger tells his defenders to just go out there and do better. I compare Guardiola for his defensive/pressing coaching skills and Wenger, and our Arsene falls way short.
PS – who was on that undefeated squad in defense? A lot of experienced players who learned their craft at the foot of another manager.
And Vieira and Petit were different midfielders than we have today – they protected their back four, in a more classic 4-4-2. This 4-3-3 we play now exposes our back four more to counter attacks and surges through the middle of the park… again, that is a coaching decision.
@Masterba…ker,
You make a strong case Masterbaker. My only concern is, how do you know what the Arsenal do at their training sessions?
@william, personally i pose as the right corner of the net. Not alot of action there.
@Masterba…ker,
The last time we showed a solid defense was when Keown was working on his coaching badges at Arsenal. Incidence or coincidence? Go figure.
LC, young Miquel is destined for the same international tournament as the ill-fated Joel Campbell!
Which raises the point as ManIOU is in Seattle? If Smalling could earn a Championship medal with ManIOU, would Mr Wenger have played Smalling (on the assumption that he chose The Arsenal), last season? Will Bartley be given a chance in midfield for experience this season?
I certainly wonder if the Hale End Academy recruits have all lost their application, aptitude and attitude?
Tim, checked out the Birmingham Mail.com, one blog re BBC gossip re Dan!!!!!
Fantastic article, I’d go with Hangelaand out of that list. I just don’t think Cahill would improve on what we have, he is just as liable to mistakes as our current CBs and offers not much more than we have, his stats are skewed by playing for Bolton and defending more.
As for the Invincibles defence correct me if I’m wrong Toure, Cole brought through by Wenger, Lauren signed aged 23 and Campbell nicked at 25. Hardly the most experienced crop when they started under Arsene. But what that defence benefited from most was Gilberto the most underrated player ever to wear an Arsenal shirt. If we could get Song to hold his bloody position for the majority of the game we could do a lot worse than our current back four.
@Gooner In Exile,
Song is not doing it of his own volition, that’s coming straight from the manager.
I’m a little unsure why you don’t seem to understand how simple the problem is with the team… Wenger likes to play kicky-tappy-passy-pass, and the defenders like to play these really elaborate practical jokes on the keepers where they run in front of them, pretend that they’re going to kick the ball away and then don’t (HA HA!), and often times they just purposely let the opposition through for fun! Which is the only logical conclusion to make, everyone knows that against Arsenal teams are meant to turn up with their pants down and cheeks spread – Perhaps Gazidis should resend that Wengerites Memo of Visiting Teams Rights and Responsibilities.
The problem is also the coaches, I have it on good authority that Arsenal training consists of Arsene and Pat sitting in large cushy chairs and allowing each player 5-10 minutes to sit in their laps and held against their bosom, their hair stroked and sweet nothings whispered to them. Then, after this warmup, the players are sent of to special trainers who sit them down and very carefully choose one thing nice to say about the players, this is delivered in French, of course.
Another problem is that Arsenger likes to offend everyone for a bit of fun, he offers clubs half the sums he should for the great English steel that this club desparately need. Not because he’s made a careful valuation of that player against a other prospects, but because he likes to stand outside opposition stadiums mooning the offices of the other manager.
The English steel that Wengenal should sign, is (after careful evaluation of talent, and eliminating everyone that might have ever seen a French film) I’ve reached the conclusion that we should sign Martin Johnson. Sure he might be slow and cumbersome, but he’d certainly put in those hard tackles that our team needs to win a trophy (You’re not allowed to win a domestic trophy in England unless you make hard tackles, reread the Fifa Fair Play guidelines if you missed it).
Which, with a combination of the above, is why we’re destined to lose Nasri to ManCity, it’s not because they’re offering him really, really really good wages, but because they’re going to win more trophies than anyone else. (But if we offered him the higher wages, he’d stay with us, because then we’d be just as ambitious as he is, oh and the beacon of ambition he’s looking to join).
Cesc, on the other hand is just greedy, eight years of service and no trophy? If a club that had your closest friends, national teammates and is where you spent your childhood offer you a chance to return. Not to mention their coach is a player you worshipped from when you were old enough to kick a ball… Oh, and they just happen to be the best club side going at the moment. Then clearly Cesc’s priorities are clearly in the wrong place, because its just about pissing on his home that doesn’t even respect what he’s accomplished.
So this all brings me to my penultimate point, the crux of the matter, stats are misleading, they don’t tell the full story, its about your attitude, not the outcome or the way you conduct business. You need to give the appearance that the dick your swinging is 6-foot long and two tonnes, not some silly French tally-wacker.
Everyone knows this Mr. 7am… so next time when you feel the need to be logical and rational about things that are well beyond a statisticians grasp, don’t be. You’ll just embarrass yourself, hopefully you and everyone else here learns something today.
@Logic & Reason, Dear Mr Logic & Reason….. Footie is also about emotion and passion….please tell me you renewed your season ticket.
@London Calling, I was doing my best Pedro…
Spent the most money in a while on merchandise, new away kit’s great. A 45 hour round trip to watch games is a bit much for me I’m afraid.
Sanchez signs with Barcelona for 37mil US to rise to 54mil with extras.
Hey Fabregas do you think Barcelona will have another 40+ mil ‘left over’in their kitty for you. Dream on son. Ain’t happening. No way Jose.
Chelsea looked tremendous in winning 1-0 over the Malaysian XI
Drogba ‘scores’ on a FK. Goal line technology can’t come soon enough.
No plane ride to Germany for Fabregas. Barcelona’s 2 week deadline to make a deal like the deadline for raising the debt limit is fast approaching.
The Arsenal transfew window slammed closed with the signing of Gervinho boys.
So its Gervinho, Jenkinson, Miyachi and then “like a new signing” duo Vermaelen and Frimpong.
I’m no closer to being convinced that the gormless joker ‘managing’ our club has changed his ways. He’s back with his squad again in pre-season so the same gutless streak that sees him too scared of dismantling the squad by getting rid of his so called wonderboys like Vela and Fabianski, has come to the fore once more.
£10m for Jagielka – is the guy off his fucking head. On one hand he gets appalled by Barca’s derisory offers for Cesc then he decides £10m for a guy in his peak years, of proven PL class and three months into a four year contract is a decent offer.
Has anyone told him it isn’t 1998 anymore ?
I’ve tried to stay away from all this transfer bullshit rumour stuff as it has driven me insane over the past three seasons, but I know it is eating away at the club we all love.
Another season of listening to drivel and watching spineless capitulations under the GIC……..we deserve better
@dean, wait, what do you do for a living?
How do you think it makes you more qualified than the “gormless joker” who managed Arsenal to an undefeated season?
We deserve better fellow fans than you. If you can’t support the team, there’s plenty of other ones out there.
Jagielka’s good, but I’m not sure that he’s really what we need. I’d rather have Samba since despite his limitations (which I feel are a bit overstated anyway), he fulfills glaring needs we have in terms of leadership and aerial dominance. I think he’s the kind of guy who would verbally tear Gibbs a new asshole if he slacks off defensively, and we need that. Djourou and Koscielny don’t entirely convince when the ball is in the air, and while Vermaelen does, he is still a shortass in CB terms. Jagielka would be good, but does he provide something that we don’t have?
@Eurazian,
Amen
Anybody with a thought got a red mark. I’m glad to be in such esteemed company.