What is a “world class” player? A player who would step into a world starting XI fantasy team? Someone like Robin van Persie? Would he get into the world starting XI over Aguero, Zlatan, Messi, or Ronaldo? And what about calling a player “technically gifted” like we constantly see applied to Nuri Sahin? What does “technically gifted” even mean? That he’s not Lee Cattermole? I’ve even seen he term “stylish” applied to Sahin, as if he’s some fancy Dan who will come on the pitch wearing the latest pink boots but not offering much in other areas.
I suspect that “stylish” and “technically gifted” both of which are used to describe Sahin in various places are actually back-handed compliments. That what some writers mean is that Sahin doesn’t like to do the dirty work – make a tackle, play defense – and the truth is that Sahin has more “steel” and less “technical” ability than many give credit.
I often find that people use “technical” to describe players who are good with the ball at their feet: dribblers. But in the Bundesliga, which prizes dribblers like Ribery and Robben (who average 4 successful dribbles per game), Sahin was consistently one of the top rated players despite averaging less than a dribble per game over his two break out seasons (2009-2011).
Where Sahin is actually “technically gifted” is in picking out long passes to his teammates. Again, his numbers here are very consistent over the 2009-2011 seasons, averaging 5.5 long balls per game in 2010-2011 and 5.8 in 2009-2010. And these long passes often set up teammates for goal scoring chances, which is partially why his Key Passes numbers were third in the Bundesliga in 2009-2010 and topped the league in 2010-2011. Long balls only partially account for his effectiveness because he also took most of Dortmund’s set pieces which comprised 66% of his Key Passes in 2010-2011 (via @orbinho).
He also placed 7th out of all players in each of his two break out seasons in tackles per game in the Bundesliga with an average of 3.5 tackles per game. Contrary to what you might have read, Sahin is actually a very effective tackler who is just as good at breaking up plays without fouling his man with a slide tackle as with just standing his man up.
What is true about Sahin is that under Klopp at Dortmund he was given a freer role in midfield than some expect from a “defensive midfielder”. But at Real Madrid, under The Special One, he was told to play deeper and you can watch almost any match for Madrid where he got playing time and see that his instructions are to sit deep and protect the back four. There are two great videos which illustrates this and which I’m sure someone will now say “you can’t use YouTube as evidence, Tim!” without noting that I have provided plenty of other evidence. Here’s the Real Madrid video and here’s the Dortmund video.
You can see why Sahin doesn’t really fit in at Real Madrid. He’s not going to start over Xabi Alonso who is a great deep lying playmaker and defensive midfielder. Xabi hit 15 accurate long balls in RM first game of the season. Sahin is also not going to take set pieces at Real Madrid. Ever. And while he’s a good tackler, he’s not quite as aggressive as Lass Diarra, who Mourinho preferred as Alonso’s partner against Valencia in their first match.
That said, Kloppo’s system at Dortmund is similar to Arsene Wenger’s at Arsenal and Sahin played in the defensive midfield role there which would be akin to playing as a “box-to-box” midfielder under almost any other manager. Under Klopp, Sahin had his best two seasons as a player where he was required to tackle, break up plays, and also allowed to get forward and play long balls to teammates at will. His passing percentage suffered as a result (sub 77%).
All of which is simply to say that Sahin is not just a “stylish” player or a pure “technician.” He’s got a wand of a left foot and can conjure up a long ball that will keep people gasping, sure. He’s a dead ball specialist who can whip in a cross, yes. But he plays deeper than many think and tackles as hard as any defensive midfielder — well, maybe not Cattermole hard, but then, Cattermole is terrible at everything but tackling.
However, the loan deal seems to have stalled and some are indicating that it’s over Real Madrid (Mourinho) refusing to give Arsenal a buy-out option all the sudden. As Arseblog pointed out this morning, that seems unlikely at this point in the negotiations. More likely is that Sahin is pulling an Adebayor and Arsenal are wondering if it’s worth it considering the players returning from fitness.
From what I’ve read (yeah, I know, Daily Fail but it’s reported elsewhere) Sahin is making the equivalent of £120,000 a week at Real Madrid and that salary would make him by far the most expensive player at Arsenal. That coupled with the good news that Jack Wilshere is on the fast track to recovery could be the end of Arsenal’s interest or could be the reason why Arsenal don’t want to pay a massive salary for the kid.
As reported today that the deal for Sahin was concluded yesterday and that only the formalities remained. It was a 1 year loan with no buyout option at the end. When ever Arsenal are in for a player there seems to be plenty of gossip surrounding it because they are so secretive about their dealings. TBH never heard of Sahin.
There was a story in the Independent but it was not the “whites of his eyes” story that we need to see. Plus it didn’t mention the buy back clause. All I ‘ve got is his agent returned to the Bernabeu on 8/20 for presumed talks. At this pont, it is still say tuned for further developments.
SAF making a lot of excuses for the loss. Just accept that Man U got ‘Fellained’.
10m loyalty bonus from United for RVpursestrings. What does that say about his loyalty?;)
And 80m buyout clause for Song just in case…:)
OTOH Fergie should note that this isa final sale and the item is “as is”. There is no refund. Being that we did get 22.5m for it (thank you very much sir), we could throw him some hairspray to mask the greys a little.;)
I don’t know how the 120k per week fits into the changes they are coming to Arsenal’s wage structure, but I would think we need to make the Sahin transfer happen ASAP. Statement of intent and all after selling Song
Consdieringt eh wage Sahin is on, you wonder what the big fuss was about ‘accomodating’ Song with a slightly higher wage.
There may be some truth to RVP’s criticism of us. It cannot be that 5 of our top performers now have left us in the last two season for reasons other than they don’t think we are going to win a cup.
Wage issue is critical.
I’m not saying we should condone Song’s antics but I think we should be working it to our advantage and holding firm. Let him get his pay for another season then axe him but at very least it gives us a better hand in the market with him on the team sheet vis-a-vis a rpelacement coming in and it gives the replacement the time to bed in properly without risk to us.
Letting him go so easily with 3 seasons left on contract sends the wrong message. We are being pushed a round.
I agree it is a prickly bit of business. But I don’t think you can force anyone to stay anymore. If their heads are turned by a Catalonian whore, then they will no longer be fully committed. They may play hard in most aspects but may also not go for those 50-50 balls or be as strong in the tackle for fear of injury or whatever. Also if they constantly have an eye out the door then they truly don’t give a shit.
I think the club had every right to tell Song that they would sit down in September and look at his deal. By September, the window is closed, arsenal would have a understanding of their yearly finances and it could be looked at rationally. The fact that Song was upset with his current contract that had 3 years left on it is Songs problem. He signed it 2 years ago knowing what that included. If he acted the fool on the way out the door, then it is yet another example of a spoiled prick who needed to go.
Well, from my prespective regarding the world class and technically gifted. A world class player is not necessarily have to be in the starting XI of the world best. It’s someone who is recognize throughout the world by his exceptional personal achievement in his position. Technically gifted is for someone who is comfortable on the ball and has an exceptional basic technique ability, ex dribble, passing, first touch, etc.
Now, regarding Sahin, i hope that it’s get done fast. I do curious about why you prefer we keep Song than replacing him with Sahin. Are you still on the same opinion, Tim?
I find it very hard to believe that anything other than the transfer fee is being argued over.
Whether RM were willing to sell permanently, whether Sahin was willing to sign for us, and what sort of wages he is on would have been known long ago.
We are not so desperate for a short-term midfield fix that we’d spend a year nurturing Sahin just to send him back when he came good.
If he wasn’t interested, he’d have turned us down already and signed elsewhere (not that there’s much to choose from!).
We would have known his wage demands early on, and surely we’d not be interested in paying anything like that amount to a player who (to be fair) has a point to prove and needs us at this stage of his career more than we need him.
At anything approaching 120k he’d need to be practically a free transfer before we’d sign him.
I think we are more desperate than we let on: The Coq is inexperienced and Frimpong is Frimponged, so if we do want a classic DM (and there is some debate about this on G4L and elsewhere at the moment), then we are a bit short-handed.
Did anyone else notice Diaby was footloose and fancy-free in the first-half, but then looked as though he’d been reigned in at half time and was a lot less adventurous in the second half? Stats Zone doesn’t seem to support this (only 2 failed take-ons), but it really looked to me like he tried and failed at being tricky in the first half and got well forward, while he was holding back in the second. Arteta, too, looked a bit out of his element, hanging back to do the dirty work, while Cazorla led from the front. Arteta had a single crack from outside the area in the entire match, in contrast to his play from last season.
Who knows what to yet make of Diaby, but both of those players were asked to adapt from their natural tendencies. This again suggests all the pieces are not yet in place at the back of the midfield, whether brought in from outside or coaching up or current players.
One possible (not saying it’s right) explanation may be that Sahin is in whole or in part leverage for other negotiations. Arsene has said we’ll bring in only a defender and a midfielder, and if it appears that Sahin is the midfielder, then maybe M’Vila or Biglia, both of whom we recently been linked with, come cheaper? Whatever it is, there’s something happening in the background, because Arsene is never one to tell it like it is until the deal is done.
I thought it was very popsitive from Diaby.
he read the game well and had the vision to spread the game out wide whilst being able to help Santi drive through the middle.
Defensively, Aretat did more of the dirty work which was OK with SUnderland but will be called into seriosu question with more physical teams like Stoke, which is where we’ll need Diaby to cover and be more conservative.
What Diaby needs to improve on is getting closer to the opponents when they are central and just outside the box. Space management. A couple of times now (against Koln and Sunderland) he was a bit too eased off and the players managed to get shots in.
nuri sahin…… The great Turk…..
Plays for a manager…. who is a jerk
Who keeps nuri… just as a perk
nuri’s passing is smooth as a merc
Yet in front of the defense he does lurk
Once with Poldi, he went berserk
Arsenal material and that makes jose irk
Great if he comes and we can all smirk !!!!!
If what I read is correct and the loan fee is £2m coupled with wages of at least £100k a week. If there is no option to buy we are paying £7m to rent a player for a year. Doesn’t sound so good then. If he has an amazing season under Wenger will Mourinho allow him to stay, very unlikely and if he does he will be priced out of our range and more than likely be sold to citeh or return to Madrid. Either way without a purchase option at the end it’s non-starter and this could be why it’s taking so long.
Agree wholeheartedly Bull, a loan for that amount would demand we have a buyout clause. Makes no sense otherwise.
Benayoun was a straight salary loan because he was surplus to requirements.
I like your thinking, Bull.
On the other hand, we’d have to pay the wages of any player in that position (i.e., maybe we shouldn’t be looking at wages as an investment in this case), and Wenger may decide that a one-year deal suits while Wilshere recovers. If Wilshere recovers.
Anyway, I’m very much hoping this goes through as a loan with option to buy, because I believe Sahin will be a success.
Bull is correct. When considered as a business asset, the “renting” of a player must come with a buyout clause in a “lease to own” agreement. Any other kind of loan deal doesn’t make sense.
I thought that it make sense. I do agree that for Sahin case, it doesn’t because of how much money that is involved. But for any other loan deals? Just take Wilshere case for example, if any loan deals have a buyout clause, we wouldn’t agree with Bolton to have Wilshere.
“Stylish” + “Technically Gifted” = DENNIS BERGKAMP
I’m not going to count on us getting Sahin until the club announce it. Loan deals are strange ones and we hardly ever get players in that way. The Beast was the last one I think and that only came about because Real wouldn’t pay us for Reyes. However, maybe with the 25 man squad rules loan deals will become all the rage, to fill a gap for one or two seasons till the U21s need to be registered.
What I am encouraged by is that we were in for Mirallas. Wenger said a midfielder and a defender, but if Mirallas is to be believed, we are also in for a striker. I think we’ll need one more, regardless of whether Chamakh stays. (I’m counting Bendtner and Park as gone)
You don’t remember Benayoun?
Well, we do have interest in Niang, so we really are interest in a striker. If we buy though, i prefer someone who is already experience the PL considering he might be second or third choice behind Poldi and Giroud.
Can you think of a PL striker of sufficient quality, who’ll be available at a decent price, at decent wages, and who’ll be willing to be third choice? I’m trying, but I can’t think of anyone who will fit that mould. I think Niang might be a good option actually. He’s younger, will be delighted to be 3rd choice, and would count as a homegrown player in the future. IF he’s good enough now that is.
I’d love it if we signed someone like Jagielka as the defender because he can play CB, RB and DM. Along with Sahin and a striker, that would just be a fantastic squad. Alas, I know it won’t happen.
Dempsey.
Not ideal because he is 29 but probably has less greys.
He is a tough bloke, sharp, versatile (playys RW, CF and also in the hole) and sufficiently technical. Plenty of PL experience.
He would be a stop gap though.
I would prefer a younger striker but there isn’t much value on that end at the moment.
Plus I think a third striker will be dependant on what we do with Chamakh (to free up wage structure)…and to much lesser extent Bendtner and Park.
Ahem, Benayoun
Well now I feel like a purple :$ Benayoun genuinely just slipped my mind. But still, I suppose the difference is that I never thought we were going to sign him permanently. Gaah.. No excuses. I just plain forgot about Benny. Sheesh.
I wish we’d kept him!
Seems Sahin has signed £2.8m and an option to buy.
Lady Arse is reporting that Spanish newspaper AS is reporting the completion of the deal with NO option to buy.
Guess we will just have to wait and see which of the 2 versions are correct.
Can’t an and no be lost in translation!!!!!
I think the AS report says we don’t have an option to buy, but that we’ll be paying 2.8 million euros towards Sahin’s salary besides some payment to Madrid. Doesn’t specify how much that fee is. I think that amounts to paying about half of the reported 120k a week. Hmmm.. Not sure whether it is a good deal without an option to buy.
Mourinho said Madrid will never sell him. But added, then it is important to recover his attributes as a player and at an economic level.
{****My Spanish is VERY rusty. }
But the part about the economic level seems strange to me. Unless its part of the football jargon of Spain or Mourinho (like Wenger’s handbrake), it might indicate the possibility of a transfer.
IMO, may as well make an offer to RM and buy him outright.
With Sahin coming you can wave the thought of capturing M’Vila, Biglia or Capoue goodbye. Makes sense because our MF will be thoroughly stocked with Wilshere and Rosicky returning.
We could then see a move for a young, under the radar defender and striker.
Think we truly missed the boat when we did not sign Vertonghen as he plays CD, LB and DM equally well, would have added height with great spot kick potential. At 10M he was a steal.
One midfielder only.
It’s Sahin or MVila.
MVila is used to better our bargaining position and vice cersa but in truth,we are in a weak position with the selling clubs knowing our need in midfield plus the season started.
Most likely, I would think MVila is the easier one as he wants CL.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.as.com%2Ffutbol%2Farticulo%2Fagente-sahin-sello-cesion-arsenal%2F20120821dasdaiftb_15%2FTes&act=url
Angelic beardy had it right. No buyout. Big money because we were competing against Besiktas, Pool among others.
We have no leverage.
RM would rather loan out to Liverpool then commit to selling to us a season down. Why should they?
A shame about the lack of buyout, but Madrid’s position is completely understandable (no doubt they feel Sahin has a bright future, as he surely does).
So what will we do a year from now? I suppose the likes of Coquelin and Wilshere will be meant to step up after this season. As for Frimpong, I’m not completely convinced he has what it takes to make it at Arsenal, but we’ll see… Another loan deal in January looks possible.
Oh well, let’s just enjoy this season, and worry about next season next season.
Sahin is an exciting addition. I’m sort of in love with him already. I haven’t felt this way since Giroud.
You are so fickle! Wandering eye to blame?
As I mentioned we shold have been smart about the Song situation and not have let his antics dictate our passions to the point of being bullied to his ultimate fancy.
We should have a performance bonus worked into every season whereby the best 3 players are offered additional money.
Song was reputedly on 55K a week which is not small change but considering he could get top money elsewhere, unrealistic.
Whiklst he was contracted till 2015 and theoretically should honour his contract till then, there is no reason to believe that looking across his shoulder, he would (nor any other top performing player these dasy) be tempted with what he could be earning somewhere-else.
This is reality.
If we take a moment to remember Santi, he chose us over Malaga because of Malaga’s better wages.
The question with regards Song was not that we should not sell him but when and how.
I would have liked to see us call his bluff, pay him an extra for a year on performance bonus (with additional criterias worked in for the coming season) and on promise to revisit the contract a year down.
Then brought in a player with a view to eventually replace him, have the time to bed him in properly (with the benefit of Song still being around) and get rid of Song down the line (Jan if the new player syncs up quickly)
Instead we’ve done it all wrong. We kept SOng too long (even if we wanted to be rid of him) because we wanted to use him to keep RVP.
Even so, we should have brought the desired replacement in earlier which would have at very least strengthen our hand in market some what because there is still Song available in the squad (theoretically at least)
We are now going to find it hard going replacing him for the price we may want and not least intergrating the new player in without risks in midfield.
I’m probably out of sync, but I think Frimpong has the makings of a good player. He is brave and hard working, his timing on tackles is slightly out. But it is early days in first team action, having played so little. It’s unfair to compare but he looks like a Viera in the making.
“looks like a Viera in the making”?
I’ll excuse you this time. To compare Frimpong to Viera is almost blasphemy in my book
More like a Chuck Tiote I would say and certainly one who could become a very useful squad player as he does have that intensity and steel we seem to be lacking.
I have been wrong before , more than once.
If there’s no buy-out clause with Sahin, what is the fucking point of bringing him in? Great player, but it will likely take him some time to adapt, by which time Wilshere (hopefully) will have returned, and then if he is in fact good enough to displace one of Wilshere, Arteta or Cazorla on a consistent basis, then when he does leave at the end of the season he’ll have just left a big hole, and all we’ll have done is put him on display so Real can sell him to Man City, Chelsea, PSG or Anzhi.
Waste of time and money. We should not be in the business of developing players for Real Madrid. Next thing you know we’ll be asking Man City for players on loan i.e. like Spuds.
Bring in M’Vila, a midfielder who also has a decent repetoire of long range passing, but also has some physicality to him. Sahin is a great player, I’d be thrilled to have him – but permanently. If it can’t be done, then fuck it.
Squad depth. Bring them both in (is this possible? I’m not sure where we are in the 25 man registration.)
Agreed.
The longer we wait, the more detrimental for us.
Selling Song was never a question but when and how was more an issue.
RM have us by the balls at the moment.
Push for MVila. If Rmadrid continue to resist, so be it.
Tim,
Not sure if you’ve seen it or covered it elsewhere, but as a bit of a side-note, Kroenke’s Rams are no longer playing in London in 2013 and 14. They will still play this year, but have been replaced by the Jags going forward. Not sure if there is any significant impact to cross-promotion with Arsenal or a shift in KSE’s marketing strategy for global domination.
We are being held hostage for our mismanagement of the Song deal.
The timing is not immaculate and selling clubs know our position.They are in the driving seat with our main ‘DM’ gone.
For us, it would be better to buy outright but at very least have a precussory sell on price worked into the deal less Sahin proves the real deal, and RM either takes him back to the fold (thank you very much Arsenal) or increases his valuation.
Jose is probably playing hard ball at the moment.
We are on shaky ground and the longer it takes to bring in a new player in Song’s role, the longer it takes to fully bed him in.
MVila is about our only bargaining chip with RM at the moment but even he (Rennes) is in a strong position to bargain, albeit if he wants CL, we have some leverage there.
I say forget about Sahin and get MVila in. Develop his latent attacking ability but at very least have the muscle we will need in the middle of the park.
If Sahin happens all the better but it looks very very tricky.
Or there is a buyout. Blimey!
https://twitter.com/TEAMtalk/status/238030813617348608
I guess it’s still up in the air whether we’re going to get our shiny new toy, and if we do, whether he’ll live up to all the hype.
Personally, I wish we’d kept Song, a known quality which would be providing us continuity.
If we get Sahin for no longer than a season, it may give time for one or both Coquelin and Frimpong to develop more. Both have the potential to make it at Arsenal but neither are quite ready to step up yet. Perhaps this is something Wenger has in mind.
The question is, how long do we wait? Coq is 21, ‘Pong is 20. But M’Vila is 22 and considered ready, likewise with Capoue who is 24.
1 yr loan with a 14m Euro (not pound) buyout. I don’t care what he makes. My only hope is that we can do for him what Klopp did and the ‘Special One’ could not and that’s bring out his best. Once again Wenger has got another gem in spite of all the money some other teams can throw around. I am overjoyed with this transfer.
Kaka is in a similar boat in that he started out injured then has become a peripheral figure at RM once recovered. Please do not let Kaka go to Man U.
I still say we should make a play for Adam Johnson.
Adebayor now goes for 5m to Sp**s and Man City have to eat 95K/wk in salary. FFP can’t come soon enough.
What is the world coming to when a striker (or any player for that matter) has to puff himself by claiming he snubbed Arsenal. As far as I’m concern Mirallas may turn out to be another Stracqualursi.
The miralles comment doesn’t bother me. The media may a big deal out of it because it was , well, Arsenal.
He simply said he went where he would get the most playing time. He also said he an Felliani are friends and I personally think Moyes has done a great job with what he’s got.
The Adebuywhore thing is just ridiculous and shows that city do not view the tots as any sort of threat. Now that he is signed lets hope he resorts to form and pisses off the entire locker room.
I do speak English , honest.
The media MADE it a bigger deal.
And REVERTS to form. Damn you autocorrect!
Can I just say this blog is wonderful and I love the new look? Also, I think the match report strikes just the right balance between description and stats; this is not intended as a criticism, but previous articles I’ve read here have been rammed to the gun’ls with stats, which, while they clearly speak of a man (Tim) who has an impressive eye for a numerical value, sometimes make heavy going for the mathematically challenged (i.e. me).
Juice by 7amkickoff!